Home Forums Guitar Instructor Doug Marks Recording Rock Guitar

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    • #38344
      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      Hey everybody. In a day or two I’m going to begin promoting my new free instructional video. It teaches a beginner how to record guitar using the free app Cakewalk by Bandlab. I have spent weeks on this video and hope it helps those that are struggling to figure this stuff out. There’s a lot of info taught in a short period of time so it’s absolutely necessary to download the lesson materials.

      The video is unlisted because I want my friends to have the first peek. Some of those that download the lesson materials will be invited to a zoom meeting tomorrow. BTW, I’ve never done a Zoom meeting so you absolutely don’t to miss this dumpster fire! The first link of this video went to MAB, you guys have received the second link. Hope you enjoy my work.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

      • This topic was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Doug Marks.
      • This topic was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Doug Marks.
    • #38347
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      Wow that’s totally thorough. Amazing all this software is free now.
      One concept I found really confusing when starting with daw was the practical difference between vst and vsti. I dont know if it could be mentioned at the start though. The part that makes it more confusing doesn’t have to do with midi, but how plugins do different things, so they’re called different things.
      Maybe turn down the guitar audio (lol typical guitarist) since I’m on headphones and compared to the voice, the guitar clips are pretty high.

      It would be neat to see the historical perspective if you have a picture of your old studio board to throw in at the start, to compare to the focusrite.

      Altho I won’t use the software since I’m on mac, perhaps a part 2 (if there is one) might explain which pedals do what. I think “the old players” have the advantage of being around when all the pedals were developed. I might know what a flanger or phase 90 is in terms of a sine wave thing, but I don’t know which track I might to include one on, or what it’s going to sound like on a guitar track if I tweak a pedal plugin properly, or what it sounds like if I tweak it badly. i.e. it’s the practical aspect of applying or choosing effects in the software which is a mystery, and now there’s dozens (hundreds?) of free effects bundled in, it’s a bit of an overload to try to figure out what best goes where, especially when the names for the plugins are chosen for quirky reasons (like, I have an fx called November Rain. Ok, so, when I apply it, how come I don’t instantly sound cool, lol).

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #38348
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      About Zoom, I have been doing a lot of this recently:
      – make sure to go into preferences -> audio -> advanced, and enable “original sound” and uncheck the noise gate aka “supress noise”.

      – I’m able to route zoom’s audio into & out of DAW, so Zoom hears the DAW’s mix. I do this using a virtual sound driver plus a “multiple input-output” driver. So I can bundle my interface+virtual driver+built-in speakers+built-in microphone into a single virtual list of channels, which the DAW uses for creating a mix.

      – When you do “share screen” or “share audio” in zoom, it really messes with the audio driver(s) so sometimes I have to close the daw, reopen the daw, reset the input channels on tracks, and then it’s ok (only takes a few seconds but it is tricky)

      Not for the faint of heart, it gets confusing, but when it works, it’s totally cool.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #38349
      rightonthemark
      Participant

      this was great Doug.
      way better than my quick tutorial.
      i actually wasn’t very well versed in cakewalk as i’ve become a reaper user.
      i was just hoping to help Paul Wolfe get recording.
      i learned sone things that will definitely make things easier if i decide to switch back.
      the last time i used cakewalk it was sonar 8.5 that came with the usb audio interface i bought. and i still use it.
      thanks for a good and useful tutorial.

      08FCBD8C-0BBB-4868-A949-17CEFD7CF808

      rock and roll ain't pretty; that's why they picked us to play it.

      Attachments:
      1. 08FCBD8C-0BBB-4868-A949-17CEFD7CF808.jpeg

      • #38388
        Doug Marks
        Keymaster

        You’re welcome Mark. Glad that you found it helpful.

        Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #38352
      pipelineaudio
      Participant

      I have some small insight onto how much hair pulling and work it would be to make something like this. Amazing!!!

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by pipelineaudio.
      • #38389
        Doug Marks
        Keymaster

        Thanks. It was the project that seemed like it was never going to end. As I neared the end I kept thinking of things that I “should” do. I implemented them all. Wasn’t easy.

        Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #38354
      pipelineaudio
      Participant

      About Zoom, I have been doing a lot of this recently:
      – make sure to go into preferences -> audio -> advanced, and enable “original sound” and uncheck the noise gate aka “supress noise”.

      – I’m able to route zoom’s audio into & out of DAW, so Zoom hears the DAW’s mix. I do this using a virtual sound driver plus a “multiple input-output” driver. So I can bundle my interface+virtual driver+built-in speakers+built-in microphone into a single virtual list of channels, which the DAW uses for creating a mix.

      – When you do “share screen” or “share audio” in zoom, it really messes with the audio driver(s) so sometimes I have to close the daw, reopen the daw, reset the input channels on tracks, and then it’s ok (only takes a few seconds but it is tricky)

      Not for the faint of heart, it gets confusing, but when it works, it’s totally cool.

      I am constantly in fights with interapp audio and how much PITA it can be. Its the subject of, not every show of mine, but certainly gets mentioned at least once. For getting to some of the software, even if you arent a reaper user, you can install reaper and have it add the optional ReaRoute. That way if your screenap software is asio, like OBS (can be) you can send to it.

      If low latency isn’t important you can sometimes use Voicemeeter or VAC as well. On Apple there’s Rogue AMoeba, which can help, but means usually using the higher latency drivers.

      RME costs extra, but their software usually has loopback which can be a magical savior for this sort of thing

      Routing nightmares

      • #38390
        Doug Marks
        Keymaster

        You guys may find this helpful. I use a Focusrite 18i8. It has 4 mic amps / channels. I plug my guitar into Channel 3, mic into Channel 4. Everything in Cakewalk is bussed to 3 and 4 outputs. I take two short guitar cables and connect the 3 and 4 outputs to 1 and 2 inputs. Skype, OBS, Zoom, they all look at the inputs of 1 and 2. So, I’m feeding everything to those inputs. If you don’t want to hear your mic you can create a second mix to sends minus the mic.

        Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #38355
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      Wow, that’s cool, I didn’t consider ReaRoute, but actually I use additional Reaper “Hardware Output” sends per track, so for example I send my guitarpro audio out to Zoom on that track, while I hear both guitarpro+my microphone+zoom incoming audio in my headphone mix. This requires monitoring be “on” for the tracks though.

      I haven’t worried about the latency, because it’s only going out. But on a recent project with Zoom+OBS with 2 cameras and 4 mics, I thought the A/V sync would be a big issue, and I saw latency in my tests. So I added a ReaDelay for the audio, to perfectly sync everything up. But it actually introduced extra artificial delay in the livestream and the sync only worked when I turned it off.. Somehow the A/V were both in sync on their own, through all the DAW routing.. still scratching my head about how that worked. Don’t fix it if it isn’t broken I guess..

      Here was my setup diagram ‘in theory’ which had to modify a bit ‘in the real world’. I tried to draw how the driver audio path worked. It’s a bit tricky trying to draw this stuff. Note where it says “garageband” in the diagram that is actually Reaper, but so as not to scare away the talent, I just said the app name they wouldn’t feel scared about 😀

      Setup-20200630a

      Zoom gets pesky with its settings like “original sound” which seem to randomly revert to their default settings, and right now it seems Zoom has a big limitation that “original sound” cant be turned on after a screen share is started. (Not a big deal to fix, but have to stop sharing, reset the preference, then restart sharing, that’s not very “pro” looking). It is a lot of things to remember while in the ‘hot seat’.

      This is one of those areas where I am glad I’m on OSX. Because it is very simple to create sound devices and aggregates of other devices. I still use Soundflower all the time.

      Recording the remote participant audio (ie maybe in your diagram, “guest feedback”) is awkward in this setup or maybe in general. Thats why I gave up and put an extra iphone in there. It is much easier with another separate device. But in the end I just recorded the zoom audio mix which included the remote participant voices (i.e. a Q&A segment) so it wasn’t a big deal but it wasn’t the greatest audio quality either (zoom’s stereo mix vs isolated tracks).

      LOL I think we probably just scared off 99% of the guitarists here who just wanted to use DAW to simply record guitar tracks 😀
      Don’t worry everybody, recording guitar is actually easy! Once getting over the hump.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

      Attachments:
      1. Setup-20200630a.png

    • #38358
      pipelineaudio
      Participant

      I just hit record in reaper with monitoring off for the guest recording. I have a way worse one, this one is for an entire band to be recording up to 32 tracks at once, have it low enough latency to record while monitoring themselves, AND send two cameras out AND hear feedback fro mthe producer remotely, while also broadcasting on Restream.io

      hell

    • #38359
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      Doug, the diagram from pipeline brings up an interesting point worth mentioning. It is really good to set o/s audio properties so that “system sounds” like notification beeps, app error beeps, etc, go to whatever generic computer speakers (and turn down this volume lower). Then set DAW audio mix to go to the interface phones or interface monitor/line outs. That way when recording a take, there’s no sudden “boink!” from an incoming text message or whatever, cranked in the headphones.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

      • #38391
        Doug Marks
        Keymaster

        Yeah, I know this but sometimes I change the notifications settings and forget to reset them.

        Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #38362
      rorygfan
      Participant

      Very nice tutorial Doug, well thought out and planned, succinct narrative as usual to limit enough info for beginners to get started. Great job and nice idea for a series. The only thing the I might say is suggesting beginners avoid punch-in and out as imo, it is a real Pain and better to save the funky take and rehearse it again to cover the solo it in its entirety. I cant imagine these engineers of 70’s cutting and splicing magnetic tape- most people have no idea what incredible tools are available today.

      I assume this answers Pauls question on the other thread to get started as the effects and VST’s you demonstrated I assume were included and pre-installed with the software so he could skip installing amplitube for now and add that later. The assumption a backing track is available so it makes it much easier by ignoring all the details of programming drums, bass, etc.

      Another thought is what I have liked is importing a preprogrammed stock midi track into Guitar pro and mute the unwanted tracks, then playback with the output to record into Cakewalk. A second older computer needed possibly. Then creating a backing track with no effort in extra learning drum or synth instrument programming required, less time on learning recording and more on guitar.

      When I used Acid Music and Pro it was simple to create perfectly timed backing “acidized” loop tracks with pre-sampled libraries like Methods of Mayhem sold, Rads drums, etc. Acid has the very fast “audition” feature which is missing in most past recording software to quickly determine which loop samples are correct then paste them in the mix. You can make an entire Acid composition with fills in a couple hours, unlike attempting that with Cakewalk, so I am curious to see how you proceed.

      After I created the backing track, then played it in a repeating loop into a cheap mixer and then recorded for say 10 minutes to a either Tascam CDR that allowed pausing of separate track burns (unheard of with standard computer cd burners then) or to a second computer running super uncluttered unblosted single channel Cool Edit 96 (precursor to audacity) which worked great until XP replaced by Vista.

      I invested $300. years ago in a couple Early Cakewalk versions, and gave up and on to other many other software (back when computers slower, less ram and HD space and cakewalk was filled with bugs and major issues, blue screen of death lock ups, etc)- so now maybe I could finally get my $300. investment back and use out of it since it’s now free.

      I think this tutorial and coming add-ons should work well for augmenting your lessons and is useful for many students.

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by rorygfan.
      • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by rorygfan.
    • #38365
      Rob
      Participant

      Thank You, Doug!!

      This is Great Information!!

      In For The Learn

      • #38392
        Doug Marks
        Keymaster

        You’re welcome Rob. Glad that I was able to help.

        Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #38378
      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      I’ll be back to comment later, probably tomorrow but I did want to thank everyone for their comments. I use my Focusrite similar to your diagram Aaron. I buss everything to 3 and 4 and use guitar cables from 3 and 4 out to 1 and 2 in. This project actually started as something I planned to do live. I did a rehearsal live program and it was pretty good but in the end I felt the subject deserved more than a quickie approach. I was thinking about you Jonathan when I did this program – forgot about you being a Mac user. Anyway, I’ll be back to comment later. Gotta run. One more thought, I am going to start doing some livestream soon.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #38386
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      I just saw a comment related to music-practice-over-zoom and the recommendation was to try a newer website app called cleanfeed.net (low latency audio only)
      maybe it requires chrome browser.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #38387
      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      I found really confusing when starting with daw was the practical difference between vst and vsti.

      Doug – I’m sure you can explain this better than I. This hasn’t been an issue for me. I would need to Google vsti to even know what it is. All my plugins are VST3 I believe.

      SB – It would be neat to see the historical perspective if you have a picture of your old studio board to throw in at the start, to compare to the focusrite.

      Doug – That’s a great idea. I could take some screen grabs from my Songwriting Course. I did a short tutorial on Cakewalk in the lesson twenty-five years ago.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #38394
      pipelineaudio
      Participant

      I take two short guitar cables and connect the 3 and 4 outputs to 1 and 2 inputs. Skype, OBS, Zoom, they all look at the inputs of 1 and 2. So, I’m feeding everything to those inputs.

      Isn’t it amazingly insane that we have to do this more than 20 years in?

      Actually plugging outputs to inputs.

      There’s some absolute howler of workarounds, lots of times people using a second computer, I’m hoping to fix this this year. Our teachers going online from the virus really freed up some resources (and the most important reason) to finally deal with it, but we got stuck on a different project…Hopefully soon

    • #38397
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      As far as I can make out, a vst or vst3 is a plugin, which allows for an effect, or an amp. Like virtual pedals, or marshals, or cabinets. These modify the sound which is fed to them.

      vsti as far as I can make out, are plugins which are software instruments to produce samples or waves from midi notes. Like, a virtual saxophone, which might have 1 gig of sample data. Because of the sample data, the vsti are expensive to buy and they also have installer apps which all they do is install other vsti plugins. (Seems is bizarre.)

      But, EZ Drummer and such drum apps, are not called vsti, even though they take midi notes to make drums and the apps come with a huge audio sample library. For some reason, there’s many downloadable drum apps like EZ drummer, which do drums either stand alone or as a plugin. But somehow there are not really downloadable saxophone apps, or violin apps, or string orchestra apps, there are only vsti. 🤷‍♀️

      The 1980’s called and wants its software market confusion back.

      Why would anyone care… well, I use Guitar Pro a lot. It has many instruments inside it, just pick an instrument and go (guitar, or bass, or horn). But get into a DAW and there are no instruments. So that’s where the journey starts: “I just want an instrument for this one measure, to go along with my guitar part. How do I get violins in there, like all these other bands have in their songs? If the DAW were Guitar Pro, I would just click one button.” It seems to be a big rabbit hole with vsti.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #38398
      PaulWolfe
      Participant

      I assume this answers Pauls question on the other thread to get started as the effects and VST’s you demonstrated I assume were included and pre-installed with the software so he could skip installing amplitube for now and add that later.

      Indeed this answered my questions! Now I just need the time to play around with the software and my guitar. Another weekend has come and gone and the family took priority.

      3 day weekend next week so I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

    • #38467
      PaulWolfe
      Participant

      Doug, tonight I FINALLY got the chance to sit down and work through your lesson from YouTube! Again I want to say THANK YOU for this. I went step by step and now I’m up and running and able to record myself.

      Initially I figured I’d record song ideas and never once considered using this as a tool to work on practicing your lessons. Now that you’ve got that idea in my head, I’ll be reworking my way through the Complete Basic Course – recording as I go.

      One last time: THANK YOU!

    • #38543
      pipelineaudio
      Participant

      Asio Link Pro is free now, though it may never be in development again, it works for now and can take away some of these headaches

      https://give.academy/downloads/2018/03/03/ODeusASIOLinkPro/

      I’m running it at home with my scarlett for when I have to run OBS or Zoom at home and its working pretty good! Scared to run it at work, but may soon

      ps EzDrummer as a vsti is a vsti
      Also, there’s really no functional difference that I can think of between vst and vsti anymore. Both can or cannot modify incoming audio (yes even VSTi’s like superior drummer) and both can or cannot import and export MIDI. VST is just a plugin format, as is AU or DX (are there still DXs around?), RTAS and others

    • #38544
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      That’s good to know about vsti, but, Reaper does not share that opinion 😀 If you pick the wrong category, then what you’re looking for won’t be listed there…

      Screen-Shot-2020-09-27-at-4.40.38-PM

      Look for the piano in the VST3 menu and it isn’t there, it is only under VSTi.. etc.. “Where’s the violin?!” Maybe the separation is historical or maybe it is based on helping the user know what’s what on the filesystem, but if the user (like me lol) already doesn’t know what’s what, then.. confusion 🤷‍♀️

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

      Attachments:
      1. Screen-Shot-2020-09-27-at-4.40.38-PM.png

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