Home Forums Other Topics Guitars mfg outsourced

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    • #38184
      rorygfan
      Participant

      I wasn’t aware of this b.s., anybody else know about this? I now think explains why the Schecter I had years back had some issues. The “Grover” tuners would not stay in tune, the bridge hardware also wasn’t as sturdy as other guitars, etc.

      I knew that the Ibanez would need to be upgraded, so had my RG replaced with new hardware. Had my Ibanez tuners changed out with locking Schallers, nut replaced and had the cheap floating bridge yanked out and replaced with a nice solid fixed bridge. Plays great, owned it 20+ years.

      The newest imported sub $1000. Guitars, I just wonder how well they play and sound, watched lots of reviews and seem to have better QC lately some of them than say a decade ago.

    • #38185
      Rob
      Participant

      So basically if a person wants a
      Made In USA guitar, they should talk
      directly to someone in the US Point Of
      Contact and EXPRESSLY STATE and put in
      writing and receive in writing that the ONLY
      parts to be used are to be made in USA
      ONLY. NO IMPORT and NO SUBCONTRACT parts.

      Or the same can be said relating to a
      SPECIFIC BRAND.

      If a person is interested in a SPECIFIC
      Brand // Model, they should research
      on some Forums related to such.

      I am new to the Branding thing.
      I have recently read that
      Fender owns Jackson
      And
      Gibson owns Kramer

      So that so brings into play the thought of
      controlling the items that get Prime parts.

      In For The Learn

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by Rob.
      • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by Rob.
    • #38188
      rorygfan
      Participant

      should talk
      directly to someone in the US Point Of
      Contact and EXPRESSLY STATE and put in
      writing and receive in writing that the ONLY
      parts to be used are to be made in USA
      ONLY. NO IMPORT and NO SUBCONTRACT parts.

      Have you ever known guitar or general retail sales people to be that knowledgeable? Its been a number years back since my last guitar purchase, but a few are knowledgeable about “what they are told”, but most are not. “What they are told” or how things are labelled also may be inaccurate. IME going back to 1980’s with most all products few sales people really knew much. Especially electronics.

      The trick about labeling “made in USA”, is per FTC rules a certain percentage of assembly is only required and this loop hole is exploited, so getting something in writing might be quite misleading. I don’t know how many parts are made in the USA anymore either. The materials could be imported also. Imported parts do not necessarily mean they are crap, nor the low price charged does not mean it is poor quality. The entire misrepresentation thing of a part like a tunning key thst is labeled say as “Fender” though it is first quality. That is what I found troubling. He has done reviews on some really cheap imported guitars that he likes also, and upgrades too.

    • #38189
      rorygfan
      Participant

      He did a video recently on US made I just noticed now you mentioned it.

    • #38191
      Rob
      Participant

      I read about some of it on a Jackson
      Forum. Then some Charvelle guys piped in.
      Yes a person can get USA Custom made with
      specific parts.
      It WILL run up the cost.
      I have heard the saying
      ” You get what you pay for ”

      WMI Korea was mentioned as being a very fine
      product. Never heard of it so I used
      GoogleFu and read about their quality, and
      diversity of Companies they work with.
      I was very surprised to learn that they are as
      deep into the industry as they are.
      Indonesia, Malaysia, and Mexico seem to be
      doing well, but nothing like WMI.

      Personally No. I have not as yet ordered a
      Made In USA Custom.
      I HOPE I will by this time next year have
      talked with Jackson USA and get something
      going.

      In For The Learn

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Rob.
    • #38193
      Rob
      Participant

      It’s like Information Overload!!
      Just a couple vids and a few post topics
      are not remotely close to giving info on a particular thing.
      My eyes were starting to cross, 🤯

      Not to mention Warmoth and StewMac.
      LoL
      If I had the knowledge, I would entertain the
      idea of assembling a kit.

      In For The Learn

    • #38194
      rorygfan
      Participant

      I have watched a bunch of his videos recently and yep, its probably too much info. I learned some details I ignored before because I really don’t want to work on my own guitars, but feel forced to as I live outside the US and eventually will need to do my own work.

      I never saw a “tenor” 4 string tele until tonight, he reviewed so the odd guitar video is interesting.

      As far as “you get what you pay for”, sure most of the time. But once in awhile its amazing. It depends like I have saved $1000. On a brand new only $350 Chinese digital Oscilloscope equal to the $1500 “US” Tek model. Very impressed with the Rigol. And on the low end though it is really bad, Chinese kitchen appliances that fall apart and short out, utensils that rust, wrenches that were not hardened and strip, fabric on my $300 couches rottened after 7 years.. those sort of things had nothing to do with the price paid as they were “normal” prices. Here There is no FTC or importation inspection board unfortunately. Walmart here imports crappy products, different standards than the USA.

      Did you ever own any Peavey equipment? I don’t keep up, but They shut down in MS their plant and donated the building. From their entry into market in late 70’s I avoided their stuff, and was shocked to see this Undercover Boss show I learned about from his channel today.
      Peavey

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by rorygfan.
      • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by rorygfan.
    • #38197
      Rob
      Participant

      True!! Thank You!!

      Jem Jr is making a really good impression
      on the Jem and Ibanez camp.
      I have not held one. I had fondled a Jem
      when it first came out. I was not a fan of the
      cutout, nor the colors available.

      You make a good point to the
      ” You get what you pay for ” mantra!

      In For The Learn

    • #38199
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      MAB has been demonstrating Sawtooth guitars in all his streaming videos. His signature guitars are now Sawtooth including acoustic guitars. All in the hundreds of $. Not sure where they are made.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

      • #38201
        rorygfan
        Participant

        MAB has been demonstrating Sawtooth guitars in all his streaming videos. His signature guitars are now Sawtooth including acoustic guitars. All in the hundreds of $. Not sure where they are made.

        You should buy one and post a review!

        Yea, I think he said China. They look decent quality and if I was in the states I would buy at least 5 of these $200 cheapo guitars, and modify as necessary, then resell after I had them. I used to have quite bunch, and miss that. I want a telecaster but unfortunately its not that easy an expensive. I don’t know why anyone enjoys buying clothing or guitars online without trying them first. Socks or amplifiers, sure less variables. Even with a return policy, the hassle factor to me doesn’t work even if I was in the US, I always went into retail and bought on site. But I am not your 2020 typical buyer. I have watched several of those high intensity marathon Sawtooth sales pitches. It’s hard to pay attention with the vast amount of other channels on YT. Then again, it’s not just his I have found that seems to be common with most guitar related YT videos, very few are to the point and ramble too much. Phil in his live stream videos puts in index markers so to jump to segments it helps. “Tell them what you are going to tell them, tell them, tell them what you told them.”- simple basic presentation-selling.

      • #38203
        superblonde
        Keymaster

        I would buy one or more Sawtooths actually.. I trust MAB’s signature gear, I’ve liked all the MAB chromacast stuff so far, and great prices. But the guitars have headstocks, lol 😀 So I just can’t go there 😀 (However I did leave a comment of course that Sawtooth should make headless, which I doubt they would do, there’s no market for headless and the company must survive on volume) I sure am tempted to get one of their acoustics though based on MAB’s videos..but I’m not ready to go classical or cowboy 😛

        It’s true MAB tends to go on at some length but then again I’m always entertained and laughing at his crazy metal jokes so I don’t mind his charm at all, it’s refreshing in fact, not many metalheads go for the comedy.. Devin Townsend does and it is hilarious, and MAB is way over the top metal entertainingly funny. Everybody else goes for the “angry sinister horror serious scary” vibe, grr, grr, i’m metal, scowl, grr! lol.

        I dont mind so much where a guitar is made as long as the labor is fair to that market (ie not child labor). Although I am not a fan of China products due to their habit of stealing intellectual property. What really bugs me is bad QA. Guitar Maxxx has reviewed the low-cost guitar brand out of los angeles favorably, saying they have great QA.. and ROTM here has had many positives about the low cost european brand. So it seems Sawtooth is in good company among the current crop of inexpensive guitar manufacturers who are not called Gibson (and don’t make up mythology about exotic wood grains).

        When Ibanez first started out, it was out of S. Korea wasn’t it? And everyone bashed the guitars for not being USA. In the late 80s right? Now those guitars are keepers..

        I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
        And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #38206
      rorygfan
      Participant

      I dont mind so much where a guitar is made as long as the labor is fair to that market (ie not child labor). Although I am not a fan of China products due to their habit of stealing intellectual property. What really bugs me is bad QA. Guitar Maxxx has reviewed the low-cost guitar brand out of los angeles favorably, saying they have great QA.. and ROTM here has had many positives about the low cost european brand. So it seems Sawtooth is in good company among the current crop of inexpensive guitar manufacturers who are not called Gibson (and don’t make up mythology about exotic wood grains).

      When Ibanez first started out, it was out of S. Korea wasn’t it? And everyone bashed the guitars for not being USA. In the late 80s right? Now those guitars are keepers..

      IP use-theft-copying-etc problems is really a mutual problem too, imo origin was started way before, not only caused by China who Japan out sourced work to get done, along with industry. I look back to US Trade regulators, greedy multinationals…. way back say in the late 60’s- 1970’s- transistor radio days, mfg in Japan after “Made in Japan” was being changed by their great product dev and applying post WWII Deming principles. Honda started with motorcycles if you know the history. Look at their success. Overpaid union jobs versus corp short term results in the stock market, both sides and lack of govt interest in giving a rip.

      Yes, Ibanez was crap in my youth. None of us would be caught dead with a lousy “copy” guitar in the 70’s. They have really come a long way 20 years later in 90’s I changed my mind and bought (2) Ibanez guitars and still have them, both made in korea and nice guitars. My own experience in 90’s was Gibsons were overpriced and still are, Fender quality of models was really confusing and tough to figure out with MIA, MIJ, MIM, Squier, etc. I had several Carvin guitars back then, and Carvin Amp when I played live as a kid.

      Yea that “tonewood” myth cracks me up on electric guitars.

      All guitars are wood and if that part of the fabrication is “finished” with a tech doing the setup, then that is all that matters. If that is in China or other country, to me irrelevant as CNC’s work the same. The key are replacing cheapo Pickups, hardware, pots etc which can all be yanked out. I have had many of those parts changed out usually on guitars whose design, playability I liked. Locking Tuner keys to me are required, I hate crap quality normal tuners.

      Watching all these DIY sort of videos, I am really tempted on buying a cheap tele guitar local and following instructions. It is a toss up though.

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