HomeForumsSoftwareThe demise of Cakewalk / Sonar

This topic contains 14 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  pipelineaudio 2 days, 14 hours ago.

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  • #22797

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    I’ve used the various incarnations of Cakewalk since the 90’s.  The past month I’ve been intensely learning some of the new features.  When I searched for information in their Sonar documentation this morning I received this message: http://www.cakewalk.com/announcement

    I have suspected that this was coming for a long time.  For most of it’s history, Cakewalk was privately held.  More recently it was purchased by Rolland then Gibson.  This was apparently not a good fit for the company.

    I’m thinking about moving to Reaper.  Opinions?

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #22800

    bdickens
    Participant

    I too have been using SONAR, and upgraded to Platinum about 1 1/2 years ago. Such an awesome program. Unfortunately, Cakewalk has been loosing money for years.

     

    A lot of Sonararians (is that a word?) are moving to Studio One or Cubase.  I wouldn’t panic, though. SONAR will continue to run for years to come. There is no need to rush into something else.

     

    There is mixed opinion on Reaper; some people love it and some say it is backwards and clunky.

     

    You can always try out the demo for free. I’m starting to test drive it. So far, I’m leaning toward the clunky side. It is nowhere near as elegant as SONAR.  And it certainly is different.

     

    Of course, all I have done so far is open it up and figure out how to record an audio track. Once I get into it, I might get to like it.

    Byron Dickens

  • #22801

    bdickens
    Participant

    BTW, although I understand why Gibson decided to shutter Cakewalk, tbe way tbey did it is utterly shameful.

     

    Two weeks ago, they basically walked in and locked the doors, and you  are just NOW finding out.

     

    Doesn’t show Gibson in a good light at all. That’s OK, at half a billion dollars in debt and no one buying their grossly overpriced Les Pauls, Gibson itself probably won’t be around much longer.

    Byron Dickens

  • #22805

    rightonthemark
    Participant

    i cannot recommend REAPER enough.

    i started with a free version of sonar in 2012 that came with my first usb audio interface.

    there were limitations placed on that version – number of tracks, fx, etc…

    so about a year later i switched to REAPER & haven’t looked back or regretted it one bit.

    the online community – forum – is fantastic.

    and, i do believe we have a metal method resident REAPER expert in our midst.

    i didn’t find the transition that tough.

    there’s even a guide for switching from SONAR to REAPER https://www.reaper.fm/guides/SONARtoREAPER.pdf

    i did mess a bit with Cubase as a free version came with the second usb audio interface i bought.

    Cubase was fine – did what it’s supposed to without any major issues.

    Studio One (artist) & MixBus are different stories.

    i purchased both for extreme discounts – (Studio One $5 on a cinco de mayo sale & MixBus for a $20 price tag).

    however, i found both to be very frustrating in trying to navigate.

    the ability to customize REAPER for your personal use is great.

    the fact that any track can be any type of track you want it to be is awesome.

    no limits on audio or instrument (midi) or bus tracks.

    and REAPER’s folder system is pure genius – absolutely love it.

    i found nothing clunky about REAPER.

    NOTE: there is a learning curve but with the SONAR to REAPER guide & the online support community it’s not too daunting of a task.

     

    ROTM \m/

     

     

    rock and roll ain't pretty; that's why they picked us to play it.

  • #22809

    bdickens
    Participant

    Although not well known at all, Harrison Mixbus looks pretty good and gets good reviews. You might want to check it out and until the end of today, they are offering it for a way stupid low price. Even the regular price is really good.

     

    It is heavily focused on audio; MIDI features are not nearly as advanced as most others.

    Byron Dickens

  • #22810

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    I actually checked Mixbus out yesterday.  I’ve been reading posts on different audio Forums and saw that many people really like it for mixing.  I’ll take a look at the price today.

    I have come to the conclusion that there’s no hurry to make a switch today.  Cakewalk’s technology will probably be purchased by another company and I’ll see where that leads.  What really sucks is, I’ve spent the last few weeks learning many of the obscure features of Sonar Platinum.  I’m working on a project to create backing tracks and aligning the original recording to project measures and tempos.  I’ve also been working a lot with Addictive drums which work with most, maybe all DAWs.

    ROTM you may have talked me into at least downloading and working with Reaper.  I have heard that the community is great, and yes, we have a leading member of that community on our Forum.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #22811

    bdickens
    Participant

    I just posted a cover of “Like a Stone” where I made great use of SPLAT’s ProChannel and automation features.

    Byron Dickens

  • #22814

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    One neat thing with Reaper is the simple video track capability. For example. I made a practice ‘play along video’ for myself using Sarah’s paranoid solo lesson tab by putting screen shots of Sarah’s tab over top of the original sabbath track and quickly dragging the snapshots of the measures into proper places of the solo. Tada, instant play-along tab to the original track. This could be done in a video editor but Reaper is really really fast, the way it handles the video track and rendering to the output. Other DAWs have basic video now too but I bet they dont handle it as easily.

    The drawback of Reaper is that it is aimed for people who understand a bit of computer programming or logical type thinking. I cant imagine a full-on artist-type-of-person wanting to deal with how Reaper’s video plugins work (literally needing to modify the plugin computer code to add the title overlay’s text string).

    Another thing I like about Reaper is how it handles units of user entered data. Like the pitch shifting or speed adjustment, you can set “down -0.24” which is half steps, vs. others that only use percentage for adjustments like that.

    But overall I’m surprised when I hear some pro’s admit to using Reaper because I thought the pro setup was almost always Logic. I used Logic before for personal stuff but didn’t like the way it did things and of course it uses the traditional DAW approach of “applying” everything to the output file as you go along. So the original files are always modified with operations. Whereas Reaper saves and operates on the original files only without modifying them (processes filters etc in real time for playback) and then only “applies” when doing the final render to a separate file, or if doing a deliberate “render this item in place” (glue/freeze). Like a video editor does.

    One of these days I am going to write a reaper plugin to generate VLC playlists from reaper project markers. That would rule. Technically, theoretically, it is possible. But it could be a bit hairy to write.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22826

    Igglepud
    Participant

    Ableton Live is my DAW. It does EVERYTHING, is intuitive (for me anyways), and is priced reasonably. You can get a free version to try out, and I’d even Skype with you to get it set up and running.

    MY ROCK IS FIERCE!!!

  • #22827

    bdickens
    Participant

    I pulled the trigger on Mixbus @ $29. I spent more than that on dinner out the same weekend.

     

    I’m also taking a look at REAPER, & will likely check out Studio One.

    Byron Dickens

  • #22829

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    MOOC
    https://www.coursera.org/learn/ableton-live
    Starts Dec 25

    Introduction to Ableton Live
    Created by: Berklee College of Music

    About this course: In the past, Digital Audio Workstations (DAWs) were programs used only by audio engineers with a highly specific knowledge base, on machines inaccessible to most people. But over the past 10-15 years, DAWs and the act of recording music have evolved from being a luxury of the few to being available to the masses. Ableton Live is one such application. Used by an extremely broad range of music creators, Ableton Live not only facilitates the work of engineers, producers, and writers in professional, home, and mobile studio settings, but it is also a powerful platform for musicians on stage, in the DJ booth, and elsewhere.

    In this course, you will explore some of Live’s most powerful and useful functionality: MIDI programming, audio recording, warping and processing, looping editing, mixing, performing, file management, and troubleshooting. Meant to be a springboard for those who are new to Ableton Live and/or DAWs in general, this three-week course will provide you with a strong knowledge base for using Live to take your musical ideas from conception to final recording. The course breaks down the many barriers of entry into music technology and encourages all those who wish, to create fearlessly.

    Note: If you do not own Ableton Live 9, you can download the free, fully featured Ableton Live Trial. The trial version will allow you to save and export your work for 30 days. If you use the trial version, do not download it until the course is scheduled to begin.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22833

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    Sonar is also non-destructive unless you choose to apply the effects.  Since I understand how to use Sonar and it actually works most of the time I’ll probably hang in there with the current version.  It was last updated in October and is quite stable.  I’m probably going to play around with Reaper.  Thanks for the info on Ableton Live.  I might check that out as well.  Problem is, it’s difficult to really get the feel of a program without investing a lot of time and I already have too many irons in the fire.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #22854

    bdickens
    Participant

    Many companies have offers right now expressly targeted to SONAR refugees.

    Byron Dickens

  • #22859

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    As mentioned above, Geoffrey Francis is doing a massive update to his Sonar to REAPER guide, but perhaps the scariest part for most of the people running Sonar in commercial studios, was REAPER’s lack of ARA….

    was

    Schwa has been burning the midnight oil to make that a non-issue

    Reaper to get Melodyne integration with ARA support

    Mixbuss is a different beast, its not so much meant as a DAW, but as a mixing platform. A lot of people use it alongside their favorite DAWs

  • #22860

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    On the silver lining side, at least for us, REAPER users have been begging for ARA support since Melodyne first announced it. There were a lot of good reasons not to spend too much development time on it, but since the #CakeWalkingDead thing started trending, the amount of ex Sonar users coming moved the for and against working on ARA, WAY into the for side

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