Home Forums Other Topics Rise of Robotic playlists, hooks, new music?

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    • #19503
      rorygfan
      Participant

      https://www.ft.com/content/5ac0ff84-b7d9-11e6-961e-a1acd97f622d

      Well that link gives a subscription error i just discovered after posting it and testing.  Good article in Financial Times…. “Rise of the robot music industry”

       

       

    • #19534
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      The story about this being a success of AI music is way overblown. Company marketing having a field day with everything related to AI because it boosts their stock prices. It’s like a kid saying “I wrote a song!” when really all they did was take a very common blues chord progression, make a new mediocre sounding solo, and then sing standard blues lyrics – not really “writing a new song”, right?

      Heres the actual songs made I believe? AI generated the melody line. humans did everything else: play it, arrange it, write chords, write lyrics, etc.


      Mr Shadow

      AI studied the Beatles and then wrote this melody line and humans made a song around it:


      Daddy’s Car – in the style of the Beatles

      I’ve never liked AI in general. Because it can’t be proven to work and if it does seem to work, no one really knows why. Writing real algorithms are better, they can be tested and proven, it means people understand how the thing works. Want to get behind the wheel of an AI-driven car that has no proof that it can work or how it works, I sure don’t. Then again I’m often wrong about what the public will accept in terms of junk.. any Microsoft product, for example.

      One of Bowie’s interviews from the 90s, he talks about using software someone wrote for him which would spit out lines of lyrics. He would use these random phrases directly in his songs.. and then not be able to explain what his lyrics meant, because, there was no meaning. He’s say “it means whatever the listener believes it means” which is totally missing the mark of an artist I think. Art is supposed to convey something with some intention, not throw out random stuff and claim “uhh there you go, now see what you can make of this”. Sometimes the art is channeled from the subconscious, it still is related to the artists’ experience, it gives it a deeper angle, it’s not just random nonsense.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #19535
      Igglepud
      Participant

      Phil Collins referencing “In the Air Tonight” used no software, but had that same result. He said he just put words together that sounded good. Sometimes music isn’t art, it’s just income.

      MY ROCK IS FIERCE!!!

    • #19536
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      The opposite side of the question is: if the AI can mimic the Beatles melodies/harmonies after being trained on it, then why can’t good musicians likewise mimic them and explain how it comes about? Still today there’s not many vocabulary words to describe what is happening in music. Only recently are there even music school classes on rock music, whereas mostly all music studies are western classical, very different music techniques right?

      Example. This week at group vocal rehearsals the vocal coach again advised: “remember, sing this first verse reverently!” I’ve had enough of that, since I spent the past couple weeks practicing and also looking on youtube etc for examples of what the heck that sounds like (and reviewing recordings of previous rehearsals), so I asked, Ok if we need to sing this reverently, then can we have a demo of what that means? wow, there was momentary uproar! Ha, how dare I ask a question like that, you don’t get what “Reverently” means? So then the next response was some kind of story: “Imagine if you are standing in the midst of.. etc etc.. it is simply that feeling..” Nah, how about gimme the example if it’s so simple? 😛 Well, I got a quick demo. To which I said: “Hmm it seems like you’re just using a more breathy type thing there.” And more vibrato too. Another momentary uproar! What! That’s not what reverently means, it’s more than simply using more breath! LOL 😛 One of these days I guess I’ll get thrown outta there 😀 😀 How punk rock!

      So I dunno. Maybe all art is not art anyway. The main obstacles being, even great & well studied artists can’t describe art.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #19539
      rorygfan
      Participant

      Those AI songs are like the whimsical-boring-forgetable nothing music, you know me… what I continually rant about.  Human or Machine…

      and then not be able to explain what his lyrics meant, because, there was no meaning.

      I saw Elton John’s Vegas show back in 2005, and during a break between songs he stated that “Take me to the pilot” was written by Bernie and had no meaning… the audience laughed as did I.  Never paid that much attention to all lyrical meanings, but it is an interesting topic.  Especially when great famous songs are not defined or explained by the artists…. like Robert Plant and Page have kept silent all these years about “Stairway to Heaven”, etc.  The keep em’ in suspense adage to showmanship… you have to love it.  Keep people wanting more and never ending string of sequels, new versions, updates, revisions, new models, etc.  That drives an economy really… Gun’s n Roses played it well probably secretly delaying the reunion all these years of pent up audience demand worldwide, now making a killing financially.  Good marketing at least these all of these concepts.  The downside is rehash as in Hollywoods lame reruns and lack of new ideas, product repackaging without redesign, feature creep with software and advanced features nobody uses, etc.  I find that very few new things that come along spark interest in me personally, I spend a lot of time searching but discover only new things that interest me a small percentage of the time.  I am not your typical consumer really anyway.  I did buy that iPhone 7 the day it came out though, since I am not like that and it was impulsive and unusual for me really and it was stolen/pickpocketed less than 30 days after I bought it! At least I wasn’t robbed at gunpoint and the photos were backed up.  I won’t replace it, the camera was great but that’s about it.  I dont like the iCloud concept. So I bought a cheaper non name for street use instead.

      Sorry back on topic to AI, I like the idea of it. I don’t like the implementation like these self driving cars.  If we as consumers put up with the same bugs in our cars as Windows has its operating system… cars would always be in the shop!  I have been reading about neural networks and AI since 1983… some progress but very slow 30 plus years.  Think about what transformed the world in another 30 year period.. say 1940 to 1970, alot more visible and real change and progress!

    • #19540
      rorygfan
      Participant

      Ok if we need to sing this reverently, then can we have a demo of what that means?

      You are funny. I like your question, sorta like cracking a joke in the normally silence inside an elevator.  Except the answer he gave you wasn’t what you hoped for, rather what you’d might expect crom somebody being challenged.  You raised the same question too about song hooks.. how do you define them…. good questions.  I find as I ease into this aging process, that there aren’t any answers for all sorts of questions. Lol.

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