HomeForumsSoftwareReaper is hanging on open for me now (latest versions like 5.60)

This topic contains 22 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  pipelineaudio 1 month ago.

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  • #22760

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    Ive been unable to make an account on the reaper forum to report bugs so I’ll just put this here and maybe pipeline will see it. Although maybe by the time he sees it, they will have already fixed it, shrug.
    I dont always keep Reaper up to date, but since a few new versions came out recently, I installed them. osx64 (see below for version) with 5.52, 5.60 and now 5.61 from just a few days ago.
    When opening my various projects, (not all the time but most of the time) I get spinning beach ball. A few times the “keep FX offline” seemed to work. I dont use any fx other than simple Reaper installed ones (like Gate and Comp). A few times going back to a prior saved .bak of the project (probably from previous save while running 5.50 or 5.51) opened up ok but immediately resaving then opening the newly saved or updated project got the beach ball again. Eventually I kill the process.

    I installed an older Reaper now 5.50c that I didnt have a problem with previously and tada, project opens up correctly, immediately. The other variable here is that macos decided to update itself during this time (to high sierra now), so I had to troubleshoot that it was a Reaper problem and not a macos high sierra problem. High sierra install seemed to change around my aggregate audio device configurations so I had to sort those out too but that’s not Reaper related.

    Gotta love software huh.

    My reaper projects keep getting huger and huger. Not really complex, just long with hundreds of files and takes.

    Screen-Shot-2017-11-25-at-1.47.59-PM

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    Attachments:
    1. Screen-Shot-2017-11-25-at-1.47.59-PM.jpg

  • #22762

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    Can you send the RPP?

  • #22763

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    Here ya go, here is 1 project, I have several that are similar and they likewise had the same ‘sometimes hang’ problems. (All good so far today with older Reaper on 3 different projects)

    http://superblonde.org/2017-3/20170620%20setlist%201.RPP-bak
    http://superblonde.org/2017-3/20170620%20setlist%201.RPP

    ^ reaper-record-practicing of my setlist for what seems like a century now 😀

    Oh by the way it isnt really an eval version I just never moved my purchase key over to my new imac.. lazy.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22764

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    Opens fine here, but, I sent it to justin with your info…can you see if this one opens? https://www.dropbox.com/s/dlqcmii553zy36m/test%20setlist%201.RPP?dl=0

  • #22765

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    I opened with my working older Reaper and it came up right away.
    I reinstalled the latest 5.62 and it opened several times OK.

    A new window on app launch “Scanning VST Plugins” comes up in the newer Reaper that also seems to take extra time, which is not something the older version ever pops up.

    Since now I have the newest Reaper installed I tried to load one of my other projects and got the beach ball which eventually went away (after half a minute). I wonder if the beachball is related to generating peaks? The behavior used to be, that a background operation with a gui status window would pop up after opening projects (“generating peaks 1/530” or whatever.. soo many files), but in the new Reaper I dont see this, and project opens with peaks already visible. This could point to some thread problem. Because my large projects have so many files, the peak generation used to take a really long time in the background (why the peaks are or were somehow tmp files so they disappear from run to run is a different topic..).

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22766

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    Are you deleting your peaks each time you close reaper? On that one I removed two apple things, DLS music and some other apple something, I’ll tell justin that it opened after deleting that, so itll help

     

  • #22767

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    My peaks preferences is the default, ‘/tmp/myusername/REAPEAKS’ … Not sure when that is trashed, whether app close or user logout (I dont log out or quit reaper often, so maybe its done on project’s close)

    After playing around with several of my projects as I thought it could be related to peaks.. but I opened several different projects, got the beachball that eventually went away (>25 sec), then the Building peaks background operation and status window popped up.

    Anyway so at least it is probably not related to plugins and reproducible on several projects. I suspect newer reaper versions but I cant rule out other suspects or high sierra. Maybe I need to check that USB HD.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22768

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    Are they all running AUi: Apple: AUMIDI Synth and AUi: Apple: DLSMusicDevice?

  • #22769

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    It happens in some that dont use those plugins.
    So I just did a bunch of back and forth comparisons of opening with 5.50c and 5.62. I cant tell if the fault is a newer reaper or random, but at least I’ve found that the lockup eventually stops (or whatever blocking thing eventually completes). File->Open for one project took 37 sec in 5.62 (after which, the project opened and peaks processing started up) but 4 sec in 5.50c. But then I opened a project in 5.50c and one of them had a beach ball for 31 sec. Inconclusive for blaming a newer reaper version, in other words. If there’s a way to start a debug log then I could do that.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22771

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    Is there a reason you want it to rebuild peaks every time you open it? That could take forever, especially if you’re doing spectral peaks and stuff

  • #22772

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    For the peaks I could save them but havent found it to be a big deal to have them build in the background, so just left the default to be tmp to save inodes I guess. I’m not doing anything fancy where I need to see them immediately, unless I’m re-recording a track and want to see my playing align with a previous recording. I just click Hide on the window normally. They build pretty fast, on this i7 imac. Final Cut used to leave intermediate files all over the home drive and I was always going into dirs to delete them so I like my tmp’s to be tmp. Plus I leave Reaper and projects open all the time (never shut down) so it’s not frequent to rebuild them. Sometimes I have 7 or 8 project tabs open.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22774

    Sarah Spisak
    Keymaster

    From Aaron Carey-

    For some reason, I can’t post at the forum again, but can someone who can post, reply to Superblonde with this:

    “Next time it happens, can you open a Terminal and type: sudo spindump REAPER

    It’ll prompt you for a password, enter it

    that will generate a file after a bit, something like /tmp/REAPER_12299.spindump.txt ..

    send that file to support at cockos dot com”

  • #22775

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    Ok thanks for forwarding. I’ll do that.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22855

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    Supposedly the problem is that I’ve managed to work harder than the software can handle 😀
    Reaper support recommends recording in OGG format if the recording is desired to be lossy (I was using MP3 for convenience… no need for hifi recording if it’s just practice, using lossy saves space). But for MP3 files, Reaper apparently has to scan each file before finishing load of the project. Since I have hundreds of MP3 files from practice recordings, it bogs down Reaper more and more.. It does not have to do this for OGG files.
    So I switched to OGG lossy instead.. which according to Reaper support, has better audio quality at the same bit rates anyway.
    Although, MP3 is compatible with apple software (like itunes or imovie), and OGG is not, which means an added step of conversion if I want to use a practice recording in apple software. Cant have everything I guess. I dunno why apple doesnt support OGG when it already supports MP3 but I guess they figure it would just confuse the normal user to have even more audio formats. Mostly for playback I use VLC anyway, which supports OGG, so that’s good.

    Long story short, I guess OGG has come a long way, and maybe should be the default format when making lossy recordings. It’s claimed to be better sound quality than both MP3 and lossy AAC.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22856

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    I would reccomend NOT recording to any lossy format. What’s the point?

    Hard drives are crazy cheap now

    CPU works MUCH less hard with uncompressed formats

    You can render to lossy if need be

    You can share using export/consolidate to a lossy format if you need

  • #22857

    bdickens
    Participant

    I agree. Storage is relatively  cheap these days. You are better off recording uncompressed audio. You can always compress the files later if you need too, but you can’t undo it once it’s done.

    Byron Dickens

  • #22858

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    That is good advice, tho I am recording anywhere from 2 hrs – 6 hrs of recording, sometimes up to 3 tracks, on most days. Mostly I listen back to these recordings that same day to review mistakes. Less often I go back to previous months to review. Even for improv practice, all of it I consider to be throw-away. For WAV it would just eat space nonsensically (~1 Gig per hour x 3) vs lossy files are like 100 MB in comparison. Nothing I play is advanced level, not even close, so anything I can play today, hopefully sounds juvenile in comparison to my future, improved, skill level 6 mos from now.

    Hmm, maybe another aspect of me recording myself, is simply to make myself nervous and put myself on the spot. As an antidote to the problem of having nerves. Not so much to serve as an actual final hifi recording.

    Most of the cover tracks I’ve posted to the forum this year were recorded as “Max quality setting” MP3 (320kbit), then the final output I render to WAV for posting here. So if the audio quality is questionable, take a listen to those.. 😀 Pretty sure my bad playing outweighs need for hi fidelity 😀

    The cool thing about Reaper is that it is really easy to change file type in the title bar drop down, I always enable the preference setting “Show Recording Format”. Reaper makes the format very obvious, it always says what it is doing. Its not so easy or obvious in all DAWs. Garageband for example requires clicking thru advanced menus to set WAV or AAC, and it keeps what it is doing hidden from view. That has been a gotcha for me a few times.

    HD’s might be cheap $$ now but they still need a physical space to put them, store them when unused, maybe an extra hub for another port to use them (and extra power brick to power the extra hub, meh!), remembering which drive stores which project, or spending time to consolidate files to particular drives.. 😛 yuck. I dunno, it just seems simpler to postpone the eventual hassle of needing to get yet another USB drive. Ok don’t anyone mention “cloud” either, even more yuck. 😛 My current drives are USB3 so I guess next time I’d upgrade to USB-C for a whole new connection style and new set of cables and new hubs and.. on and on.. I like technology marching forward but it’s a love-hate relationship for sure. I dont know what I should even do with my older 250GB firewire-400 drive or my 500GB firewire-800 drive. Bah!

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22861

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    I wonder how much space recording to wavpak would save, at least its a bit less sketchy on the CPU side

    And its non-lossy

  • #22865

    bdickens
    Participant

    Holy….!  That’s a LOT of recording! You keep it ALL?

    Byron Dickens

    • #22867

      superblonde
      Keymaster

      Holy….! That’s a LOT of recording! You keep it ALL?

      LOL. Like in my first post with the screenshot, the reaper project where I record my ‘setlist #1’ songs is now ~30 hrs long of daily recordings (3 tracks: drum machine, guitar, vocals) since last june. It’s about 35-45 mins of recording per day for that chunk of practice. Hmm the recordings subdirectory of that project is 14 gigs of mp3 recordings. If recorded as WAV it would be 50x that size. Wavpak, I havent had experience with.

      Keeping everything is just easier than picking & choosing what to keep or delete.. Like you said, storage space is cheap.. there have been times when Ive gone back into a reaper project recordings from 8 mos ago and been like “oh yea, I spent a weekend trying to learn that song, I forgot about that.. lets see how I do with it now”. I have a danzig reaper project that I made last year from prior random danzig song practice, which I recently revisited. It’s odd to listen to the old recorded takes. I temporarily gave up on those songs because they were too hard at the time. Prior to starting this reaper project work method, I was just using garageband, or whatever play-along method, just randomly and not organized, which I repeatedly found to be a mistake, because I couldn’t go back to review, or have templated and already-set-up projects that I could just load up & play along to quickly. Currently if I want to re-practice all my nirvana songs for example, I just load my nirvana project and start recording new takes or playing along within about a minute. Last year I had individual projects for each song but Ive found it easier to make 1 project per artist or band instead, containing many songs per project. Sometimes I import entire live concert videos from youtube into Reaper to chop out the live version of 1 song to play along as practice. Just the other day I recorded 15 takes of badly playing Paranoid over the top of an old Ozzy concert.. at various slowdown rates too, 70% to 100% (Reaper makes slowdown practice sooo easy with it’s Rate slider). I dont know if my current style of practicing/recording is the best or not. I think I’ve accepted this year that I’m just an incredibly slow learner at everything related to music, so I just keep trying to put the time in, with steadily improving discipline. All I can say is that everyone else I’ve practiced or jammed with locally, seem to get by with playing along to a youtube video on their phone, or using some bad printout from ezchords which has a bunch of pencil mark chicken scratches and scribbled crossouts as corrections. I can’t learn or rehearse songs like that!

      I’m not sure about the concern for CPU use. My iMac’s fan rarely starts running at hi speed so I assume CPU is not really being taxed much. 4 GHz, 4 core i7, even worst case when I have 6 tracks with multiple simple plugins running (reverb, comp, etc), I cant see CPU is a problem at all. Rendering is typically done at like 10x-15x(?) speed.. Im guessing now that the hanging that reaper does is disk I/O related, because it supposedly has to read & scan all the mp3 files before the project pops up, before even doing peaks, and during this time, the app appears frozen. Why it has to scan mp3 files but not any other type of file, I don’t know, or why that info can’t be saved in the project instead of rescanning every load, I don’t know either. Maybe I could speed it up by moving the project to the internal drive (which is SSD), but I like using the external HD directly though.

      The only plugin that seems to give CPU symptoms is ReTune, if I open the window with recording enabled or monitoring, then do a playback. Audio starts skipping unless I de-select recording. But I am sure that is a bug.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22868

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    Its not that it has to just scan the mp3’s it has to decompress them

  • #22869

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    Okay, but the suggestion was to use OGG since OGG doesnt have that. So why it has to be done with MP3 and not OGG, who knows, I guess maybe because MP3 is handled with external 3rd party library and not internally..

    Overall since I know what the problem is now, I can simply put up with it. I switched to recording with OGG so the delay wont get worse. Not sure I want to go into my projects with hundreds of takes and convert all files from MP3 to OGG or especially to WAV.. Seems simpler to start all new empty projects for 2018 or something, using OGG, and keep the old projects with MP3s as reference only.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #22873

    pipelineaudio
    Participant

    I am running out of my knowledge base here so I’m sending off some questions to others, but I would assume ogg has to decompress as well

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