Home Forums Guitar Instructor Doug Marks Practicing the diatonic scales / modes (week 27)- C major

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    • #20641
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      I’m continuing to play thru the diatonic scales/modes continually as warmup and also in noodling while watching something distracting. For pattern 2 if I start ascending (I always default to playing ascending first.. altho the ex 1 is descending first): is it important to start the pattern on the root note (especially if doing a lot of repetitions)? Usually I start on 6th string B, because that’s the shape, but maybe it’s better to start on C. What do you think? Or more generally should scales be played root-to-root?

      I guess only the 2nd pattern has this ambiguity because the other ones line up with root note first on 6th string.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #20646
      MotleyCrue81
      Participant

      Normally when just practicing a scale in it’s first pattern you’ll wanna start on the root. But I mean as long as you know the shapes then who cares where you start, it all just matters how you apply it in the end. Personal choice.

      Bring hair metal back!

    • #20655
      Sarah Spisak
      Keymaster

      Root to root!  🙂

    • #20658
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      I’d guess that playing root-to-root (or at least starting on the root note) is really good for ear practice. -vs- playing the whole pattern, is maybe more beneficial for fretboard practice or linking positions together. So it’s like there are 2-exercises-in-1-position. I’ll follow Doug’s advice from earlier weeks, focus on a single scale for a week, and also only one of these types of playing the patterns for that week, so, I’ll start playing root to root like Sarah mentions for a full week then next week alternate to the complete pattern, and see how that works out.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #20661
      safetyblitz
      Participant

      I’d guess that playing root-to-root (or at least starting on the root note) is really good for ear practice. -vs- playing the whole pattern, is maybe more beneficial for fretboard practice or linking positions together.

      I propose that what you’re refering to as “fretboard practice” and “linking positions” will also train your ear, and if you are not mindful, it will train it in a negative way. The point of doing things root to root (no matter which scale you choose), is that you are placing and hearing the notes in a particular musical context. When you select and practice a box pattern without thinking about where the root is, you’re actual unwittingly ear-training specifically the mode that happens to be embodied in that box shape (treating the first note of the box as the root), but without being mindful of which mode it is. If you are wanting to practice shapes for the natural minor scale, “leading in” to the pattern with the “missing” notes of the scale from outside the pattern will help you place the pattern in the context of the scale you are intending to practice (and vice versa), and have the postive side effect of training you how to lead into that pattern from a scale on a single string. Once you learn the sound of the scale you’re targeting, this approach also allows you to predict how each note in the pattern is supposed to sound, and you will be able to notice/hear any mistakes more readily than if you play the pattern without regard to which note you’re treating as the root. This is a good reason to work with a single scale or mode over an extended period: you are simplifying the hearing recognition task of hearing whether you played the “right” notes or not, and noticing where in the fretboard patterns the root falls for the particular scale/mode you are working on.

      • #20666
        superblonde
        Keymaster

        Good tips and it means I should also tune my guitar first, hah. When I grab it first thing cold in the morning sometimes the squire is out of tune, meanwhile I’ll play a scale on it while watching the morning financial news.. no good for the ear I suppose (the news isnt good either hah). When playing along like that, it’s a finger warmup and I’m not plugged in so I don’t even really hear the guitar, or at least pay attention to it, but I guess there’s some part of my ear that is still paying attention. In general I think my musical ear has gotten a lot better from playing the diatonic scales which is not something I noticed when playing lots and lots of pentatonic scales (for obvious reasons of it being a neutral scale I suppose).

        I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
        And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #20662
      PaulWolfe
      Participant

      I am assuming that your scale pattern is C Major 3 notes per string based on your description of starting on the 6th string B but thinking of the C as the root. Is this a correct assumption?

      If so, I would start on the C note (6th string 8th fret), Drop back to the B note (6th string 7th fret), ascend to the E note (1st string 12th fret) and resolve to the C note (1st string 8th fret)… conversely, when descending, I would start on the C note (1st string 8th fret), then play the pattern descending from the E (1st string 12th fret) down to the B (6th string 7th fret) resolving to the C (6th string 8th fret).

      Not sure if that’s how Doug had in mind, but that’s how I practice scale patterns to keep the root note in my ear… this system works equally well for all the modes – start on the root then play through the pattern (ascending, descending or both) and resolve to the root. Often I’ll run through the pattern say 8 times and then play the root triad chord (in this case C major) in as many positions as I can.

      C-Major

       

      Attachments:
      1. C-Major.jpg

      2. C-Major-Tab.png

      • #20668
        superblonde
        Keymaster

        Hmm that pattern is introduced in week 34.. three notes per string.. the week 26 – week 30 are box shapes like the pentatonic but with the half steps added. So week 27 pattern 2 is different than that diagram. Both pattern 2’s dont start on the root note so your advice is true either way. Good way to do it, start on the root then either ascend or descend all the way and then end back to the nearest root again. Seems to require some concentration too, to be aware of where the fingers are, not like just mindlessly playing the box pattern which is quite easy to space out on and just let happen.

        I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
        And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #20673
      PaulWolfe
      Participant

      Good way to do it, start on the root then either ascend or descend all the way and then end back to the nearest root again.

      I read that idea or saw it in one of the thousands of video lessons I have… it made sense and stuck with me. I also like to use the Ditto looper and play a vamp of the root chord and then practice the scale over it… same with modes, playing A Dorian over an A minor chord, then A Aeolian, A Phrygian… to hear the differences. It’s also fun to play over different rhythm beats now that I picked up the Beat Buddy Mini… keeps things fresh and I find playing outside of the rock genre to be a challenge.

      Seems to require some concentration too, to be aware of where the fingers are, not like just mindlessly playing the box pattern which is quite easy to space out on and just let happen.

      This was an issue with me for ages, mindless repetition is good to a point. It gets the pattern in your head, but after a while all I could do was play the pattern. When I re-focused on the root note and changed the rhythm, it scale patterns became more useful.

    • #20674
      PaulWolfe
      Participant

      Don’t forget to sequence once in a while, too…

      Attachments:
      1. Sequence.png

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