Home Forums Software and Equipment Hearing protection (was: Electronic drums today)

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    • #10582
      barks62
      Participant

      somewhere there’s a middle ground.. (don’t say ear plugs, yuck)

      Lol, I wear one ear plug in practice!  I have to put a plug in the ear that’s closest to the drummer when he uses his acoustic kit.  If not, my ears are ringing for a loooooong time after.  Like, sometimes a full day after…

      I only need one plug, though.  The other ear seems fine.  It’s just the one that’s right by those cymbals that takes a beating.

    • #10583
      safetyblitz
      Participant

      The earplug conversation reminds me of a print interview with Ted Nugent I read in the 90s. He said something to the effect of “anyone who thinks it’s not cool to wear earplugs on stage should ask Pete Townshend if it’s cool to be deaf.”

      Nugent himself figured at some point in his career that his right ear was bearing the main brunt of the noise on stage, so he started wearing an earplug in that ear only. He’s now pretty much deaf in the ear he left unprotected.

      Quoting Nugent from the article below from 2000:
      “My left ear is only there for aesthetic purposes. It just balances my head so I don’t fall over.”

      https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/health/doctor/lhdoc155.htm

      A more recent article with Roger Daltry remarking on Townshend’s hearing:

      https://ultimateclassicrock.com/who-roger-daltrey-pete-townshend-stone-deaf/

    • #10584
      safetyblitz
      Participant

      I remember seeing an ad in a guitar magazine in the 90s where Kirk Hammett had foam earplugs in, though I think he now uses custom moulded in-ear monitors.

      Here’s an interesting video from 1989 with Lars Ulrich talking about earplugs.

      So, in short, if you think there’s something wrong with wearing earplugs, then Lars Ulrich is smarter than you. Let that sink in for a minute.

      And a more recent video with Metallica warming up and James mentioning earplugs.

    • #10586
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      I wear earplugs for some things – when using power tools, or sometimes when driving long distances even. When I wear earplugs while playing I can’t hear myself. Which means I’d have to turn myself up, to hear myself through the earplugs. Which negates the reason for earplugs right? Wear “-25 dB” earplugs to decrease the volume into the ear, and then turn everyone else “+25 dB” up to compensate? And anyone else not wearing earplugs will doubly go deaf from my amp, not just the drums. (If there are neighbors involved, forget about playing that loud anyhow.) The problem is the drum volume and having to match drum volume, not the availability or quality of earplugs.. the lead guitarist sometimes wears rifle-range ballistic earmuffs – sometimes just one ear on. I don’t think it’s a good idea to protect only one ear. I thought I read some medical thing one time that said, it will actually make it worse (somehow the body compensates because one ear is less volume and one ear is unprotected?), even if it doesn’t feel bad at the time.

      Ha, safetyblitz, if that was a dig at Lars, that was pretty funny, lol. 😀

      I just wish the drums were softer, that would fix the trouble, then everyone could play at a “nice” volume.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

      • #10589
        Doug Marks
        Keymaster

        There are very good ear protection solutions. The inexpensive solutions can be found at Guitar Center. They carry plugs that range from $10 – $30. They don’t just muffle the sound, they muffle the sound while keeping frequencies balanced. That’s a big difference. It lowers the volume and primarily affects frequencies that will damage your hearing. The next step is to visit your local audiologist and have custom plugs made that also keep the frequency dispersion balanced but can lower the decibel level substantially.

        Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #10600
      barks62
      Participant

      They don’t just muffle the sound, they muffle the sound while keeping frequencies balanced. That’s a big difference.

      These are the kind I use.  The cheap ones from Guitar Center that keep the frequencies balanced.  They are waaaaaay better than using standard hearing protection.  I’ve still found it difficult to hear myself with both in, though.

      I think I might invest in some in ear monitors if we ever start playing live again.  Our singer has them and I might be able to just buy an add-on body pack for his transmitter.  IEM’s are a great solution because they give you what you need to hear but still protect your hearing.  The knock against them is they separate you from the audience… but with someone with EXTREME stage fright like me, that would be a great thing, not a bad thing!!

      • #10616
        superblonde
        Keymaster

        I’m not sure how IEM’s work but I would guess the feed comes from mixing board, right? I was thinking of something like, IEM but with my own binaural microphones placed where I want them, into my own little mixer and into my own transmitter. Maybe like use an old pocket-size minidisc recorder as the mic amps then out to the transmitter. This way I could set my own ear volume that would represent ambient sound just at a much lower volume. Or alternatively it wouldn’t have to be wireless. Maybe I could use really well-isolated in-ear headphones straight out of a minidisc recorder’s headphone jack, with binaural microphones placed somewhere on me. (Minidisc recorders typically have great auto mic level and they’re tiny.)

        I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
        And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

      • #10628
        barks62
        Participant

        Yes, IEM’s come from the mixer. Or wherever you plug the transmitter in, really. It just gets the audio signal you feed it and send it from the transmitter to any body packs that are linked to it. I’ve read that some IEM body packs have a small microphone built in to pick up some ambient room sounds, thus giving you some connection to the room and the audience. Exactly what you were talking about. I don’t know how well they work but it’s a hell of an idea.

    • #10608
      vinay
      Participant

      As for the drums, I completely understand that the quality of digital gear nowadays is so good that the convenience it gives outweighs the slight loss in sound quality it may give. If any at all. Drums are hard to record properly and consistently. It is probably quite hard to use an acoustic drumkit live (or even for recording) and have an amplified or recorded sound that’s better than what a good digital kit could easily get you. Same reason we’re seeing more professional electric guitar players switch to a quality digital unit like Kemper or Axe-FX. Heck, society is willing to sacrifice a lot of quality for a bit more convenience. Just look at what we’re eating nowadays!

      As for hearing protection, I’ve been using Alpine hearing protection for decades now. Doesn’t bother me at all. For construction stuff (and vacuum cleaning) I use those big muffs that go over my ears, but for the rest I use the in ear protection where applicable. Which is when playing or jamming loud, but also when driving longer distances and being bothered by the engine noise. I don’t think it affects the spectrum too much really. It’s when you take them out where I’m surprised how loud everything is. The only thing is that when talking, I don’t intuitively compensate for how loud everything is. I just talk at normal volumes.

      I think as a musician it is pretty much essential to take care of your hearing. How can you mix properly or adjust the eq if your perception of the sound is off? There is a slight downside as well. Sometimes there is an annoying high pitch at work which freaks me out and no one knows what I’m talking about! I once had to weld thermoplastics with an ultrasonic welder which worked at 20kHz. Earmuffs didn’t help a bit. You still hear it, only not as loud. But the hearing threshold for those frequencies is pretty close to the pain limit already. Glad when it broke and they replaced it with one running at 40kHz ;).

      If you don’t like to play with hearing protection, it may be worthwhile to wear it where it doesn’t matter that much. Like the time around the gig when it is still noisy or when you’re traveling in a big city. I’ve learned that your hearing is able to sustain sounds up to 80dB for extended time before hearing damage kicks in, but above that it is just shorter. So if you have to expose yourself to, say, 95dB for 90 minutes then give your hearing a break and wear the hearing protection before and after your performance. I’ve hear violin players can be conservative as well and many have hearing damage in a single ear. If I have hearing damage now, it is most likely from comforting a crying baby.

      • #10629
        Igglepud
        Participant

        People think I’m crazy too, but on bus trips, I hear a high pitched squeal EVERY time the light on top blinks.

        MY ROCK IS FIERCE!!!

    • #10637
      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      I have hearing damage in my right ear. I attribute it to cymbals. That’s the ear that was closest to the cymbals. I have tinnitus, there’s no such thing as silence. I first noticed it five years ago. Most of the time I’m able to ignore it. I’m a big fan of hearing protection. The idea you have SB is something that I’ve considered. It wouldn’t be too expensive to create my own mix in practice situations where a monitor mix isn’t available.

      If you don’t have some way to monitor other instruments playing guitar can be very lonely. Your sound is either hitting you in the back of the head or passing beneath you. At the same time it’s difficult to hear the bass player, guitar or keyboards. It’s really impossible for a band to be tight if you can’t hear the other band members clearly and they can’t hear you.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #10741
      ZUrlocker
      Participant

      I never play with a drummer or attend a club or concert without earplugs.  I use the $5 pharmacy plugs that look similar to these on Amazon

      https://www.amazon.com/Macks-Shooters-Seals-Plugs-Pair/dp/B0067PMYRE/

      They are cheap, and do not muffle the sound, they just reduce it and it still sounds right.

    • #10914
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      Previously I always used foam earplugs, and I always keep some in the car (I notice some of them dry out more than others)… I even sleep with the foam ones sometimes if I’m around snoring people, they work great for that.

      So now I picked up two types of the silicone type of ear plugs. One pair from Vater and one pair from Alpine. So far I wore the Vater pair during band rehearsal and they definitely have a nicer sound compared to foam plugs – I could hear myself and at the same time the drums weren’t overpowering. I put in the beefier set of filters first. It will take some getting used to, basically, have to learn to hear “through” them because they do have a sound character to them. I should note that I play guitar while standing right next to the drummer and cymbals..

      Also like Vinay mentioned I have the same habit, I start talking quieter with any type of plugs in.. probably annoying to others, oops.

      I’m not sure I used the new plugs correctly (doesn’t do much good if they’re not all the way “in”, right?) so I looked for a video for how to use them. Here’s Jimmy Pemberton explaining how to use these earplugs and also how to get girls. Hah. Actually part of this video is important – I guess the “air seal” mentioned in the video is doing most of the protective work so if that’s not done right, they probably aren’t doing their job?


      Vater Percussion – Jimmy Pemberton Ear Plugs Lesson

      I should probably sign up for a hearing test just as a benchmark, probably last time I had one of those was in grade school or something and that was just to separate the special school kids from normal school kids.

      I really like Vinay’s idea too. At least wear them during music breaks or before playing. To me it is astonishing when I go to a small club to hear a band and put earplugs in at the beginning of the night, then after a band plays a full set and the ambient music starts up again, take them out and WHOA IT’S SO LOUD! It’s almost as if no sound guy has ever tried to talk to girls! The ambient music is so loud that talking and listening is impossible, even during the breaks. And painful.. Reduce exposure time to anything loud..

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #13168
      superblonde
      Keymaster

      https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35751399

      Australian rock band AC/DC are postponing the rest of their US tour after singer Brian Johnson was warned he is going deaf.

      The band posted a statement on their website saying doctors had advised Johnson to stop touring immediately or “risk total hearing loss”.

      They said they would likely perform with a guest vocalist in rescheduled shows later this year.
      Johnson, 68, from Gateshead, has been lead singer with AC/DC since 1980.
      The news is the latest in a series of setbacks for the band.

      How loud is too loud?
      Loudness of a sound is measured in decibels (dB). Exposure to noise at or above 85 dB can damage hearing. Loud music at clubs, gigs and festivals, and through personal music players, can cause damage to your hearing. The risk of damage is determined by how loud the music is, how long you are exposed to it.
      Average decibel levels:
      •60 dB – ordinary spoken conversation
      •70 dB – city street
      •100 dB – pneumatic drill
      •100 dB – maximum volume on some MP3 players
      •110 dB – night club
      •115 dB – rock concert
      •120 dB – aeroplane taking off
      Source: Action on Hearing Loss

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

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