HomeForumsOther Topics12 Tips to Start an Adult Band

This topic contains 81 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  superblonde 2 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #4222

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    I will be posting one tip each day for the next twelve days. Please join in this discussion. By the time we’re finished we may have even more than a dozen tips. I’ll add what was discussed here to an article that I’m writing on this subject. Thanks for your participation.

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 1 – Begin by finding one other musician

    That’s where it all starts. It only takes two to begin practicing songs and jamming. Build your band one musician at a time. That way future members will be “joining” a band not just putting something together. Read the complete article here: How to Form an Adult Band

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4227

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    In comparison to metal, Jazz has a well established list of “the top 100 jazz standards” that every student learns (thru more structured jazz instruction I suppose, and also their fake books) and so jazz guys can usually say they know certain standards. So they probably have a few songs in common with other guitarists they might meet. Rock is more ad hoc, it seems guitarists come from different directions. So would you say there is a list of “the top 10 standard metal songs” ? In the 80s it was probably a couple hits by Led Zep. Maybe not anymore?

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #4231

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      Popular music has gotten so diverse that it’s difficult to classify anything as a standard. Decide what type of venue you would like to play and find out what are the standard tunes played there. When you find other musicians with similar tastes you should be able to find common ground. Choose a few tunes from that
      “common ground” and let people know to be prepared to play those songs. Be sure that they’re simple songs with simple arrangements.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4228

    gman
    Participant

    Was very excited to read the email that introduced this topic.

    I am the guy you described minus the early life guitar experience  Your description of bedroom rockers is spot on – it’s just too easy to just pick up pieces of songs and riffs and not learn full songs.  I find myself doing that a lot.

    I have been playing a couple years and only recently found some guys at work that play and are interested in getting together to play together.  Very much looking forward to getting together with them as a way to learn more.  Third session is this Friday.

    Looking forward to these posts.

    Thanks.

  • #4229

    Hard40sta
    Participant

    I think that is the beauty of starting up a band with other people. They play different songs than you do. Nothing stretches you further, faster than learning songs you have probably been listening to your entire life, but never took the time to learn. Now you have a reason and a built in teacher to show you the fast lane to get the song down. I would think playing “standards” would get boring. (Not knocking your comment at all superblonde, just an observation.)

  • #4233

    Psionicist
    Participant

    That’s what I’m doing now, a friend got Rocksmith and is learning the bass, so I go over and play the guitar to all these old metal tracks he is learning.

    PS. I own Hawk on cassette. I must have got it around 1986 from a Sound Warehouse (big chain) in Houston.

  • #4235

    Anonymous

    I am 48 and currently not in a group. I have played live off and on for 20 years. The last cover band I was in played 100 shows in three years, including some crowds of 500+. I even opened for The Little River Band once. My guitar skills were never exceptional, and they are slowly decreasing due to arthritis and carpal tunnel. I can no longer play three hour shows without pain or numbness on some songs. Which brings me to my current desire – to form an original band. My problem is I have never been able to compose songs. I can hear ideas in my head, but can’t put them to the fretboard (I have no theory knowledge.) I need to find a band that already had primary writers (I also can sing lead), or just come to terms with being nothing more than a mimic, able to play cover tunes. I miss playing live, but I would love to be a part of really creating something…..

    • #4261

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      Take the songs that you know and use them as “models” for creating original music. The best songwriters that ever lived modeled their music after standards and favorites. I strongly recommend that you read Bob Dylan’s autobiography. He does a very good job of explaining the process.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4243

    1obywan2
    Participant

    Greetings fellow music metallurgist’s. This 12 tip brainstorm on how to start (or form) a band could not have come at a better time for me. After a 30 year haitus’ (retired telephoneman) from rock&roll, I’m back……… We already have the band and it happened just like you (Doug) describe. Friends getting together and believing you never are too old to rock! Can’t wait to read up on the next 11 tips to see where we measure up on our formation as we are already jamming both covers (60’s to 90’s classics) and originals. Koudos Doug, long live Rock/Metal!

    P.S. For a sound bite of the band, go to Soundcloud.com and search “Freebird at classic rock by Priest” as a copy we do, and try (if you dare) a search on “Lost and Forgotten by Priest” for an original take on blues/rock (bear in mind the recording was done on an Iphone0, but over a good set of speakers it sounds decent.

    1obywan2

  • #4245

    j dogg39
    Participant

    I find that it is difficult to find other people to play music with. I am 42 years old and love to practice and love to play. Unfortunately, the people I do find that want to play aren’t very committed. They commit to getting together and jamming once every 5 or 6 weeks which doesn’t really work for me. I understand most people my age have family responsibilities, careers, etc. I guess maybe I am one of the proud and few dedicated guitar players. I just have a genuine love for all music and playing guitar

    • #4262

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      Hopefully some of the tips that we’ll discuss will help with your situation. Usually, the problem that you’re experiencing happens when you live in a small community. There aren’t many musicians to choose from. Whether you live in a small town or big city I recommend that you spend an extraordinary amount of time finding the right musicians. People often settle after a week or two of auditions. Sure, get together with the people that you find from your initial efforts but don’t stop looking. When I was in my early twenties I lived in Atlanta. A group of friends had formed a band in Michigan and all moved to Atlanta except for the bass player and guitarist. For them the band was a hobby. For me, I wanted to become a professional musician. It’s not that I “settled” to play with these guys. They were all more experienced than me. As time passed I kept raising the bar and one by one they quit the band. After a couple of years when I quit the band it had evolved into a full time touring group.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4248

    TommyZ
    Participant

    I agree it’s so hard finding the right people or any for that matter!Out here its Metalcore, Country or Classic Rock covers 60’s to 90’s. I’ll be hanging out here for sure.Oh I am also in  the forty something Old Doug student category and proud of it!!

    "The level of achievement that we have at anything is a reflection of how well we're able to focus on it " Steve Vai

  • #4254

    gman
    Participant

    JDogg

    I am right around your age, and I notice the same thing.  Not just guitar, but any interest outside of work/family/TV.

    Most people completely give up their interests and identity outside of work / family, and I think that is a terrible mistake.

    Keep looking though.  Keep an eye out when interacting with people, you’ll find some here and there that have similar interests.

    Always be friend stalking!

     

  • #4257

    kes7u
    Participant

    Wow!  A lot of very similar stories in this thread.  My wife and I always discuss the same thing.  People seem to grow up, and almost give up, perfectly happy just living vicariously through their kids.  Last January, my wife took up equestrian and I took up guitar.  We have truly never been happier both with our hobbies and now even our time together!!

    • #4263

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      I love this story. You must always be evolving.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4258

    j dogg39
    Participant

    I started teaching basic guitar at the youth correctional facility where I work. The youth think I am a guitar wizard, LOL! It gives me the chance to play with others and to pass on  the cool theory stuff I have learned through all my MM DVDs. The kids love it but want to go from playing basic open chords to Avenged Sevenfold solos. I tell them that if they are dedicated, they will get there

    • #4264

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      You might also mention that practicing guitar might cut into some of the hours they’re currently spending playing video games. We all must make sacrifices.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4265

    barks62
    Participant

    You must always be evolving.

    Awesome, awesome quote, Doug. I agree 100%

  • #4266

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 2 – Buy a bass and your band will have a bass player
    It’s difficult to find a good bass player. If a musician is pretty decent on bass they normally want to play guitar. It’s easy to find another guitar player. Why not buy a bass and a small bass rig and take turns playing bass until someone fills the spot? Who knows, that someone might be you. It’s way easier to find a band if you play bass than if you play guitar. It’s a great place to start. In the process you’ll start learning about the foundation of songs. Who knows? That awesome band that you’re playing bass in might need a guitarist one day.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #4342

      metalj
      Participant

      I got 3 bassists and two drummers but finding a guitarist seems impossible. Mabey I’ll try the music store. This is a great topic playing alone sucks.

      Jay aka the letter J

    • #4375

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      Be sure to read the “Tips” at the bottom of the article that I’m continuing to write. I’m using conversations from this thread to expand the topics. I added some good stuff about advertising for musicians to the article (go to the bottom):

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #4408

      grondak
      Participant

      There is something different between playing bass and guitar- or at least I see it in the bassists I know (versus converted guitarists…)   That slapping stuff is not a guitar move! 🙂 Could there ever be a Metal Method bass video?

      Metal Method is helping me across the board!

    • #4409

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      In the 80’s we actually had a bass guitar course.  I’ve tried to get bass players to create a course since then but haven’t had any luck.  I’ve considered doing a “bass guitar for guitarsts” lesson myself.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #4410

      Dave Pickering
      Participant

      From Guitar World, “The Guitarist’s Guide to Playing Bass”

      http://www.guitarworld.com/guitarists-guide-playing-bass

      My biggest fear is when I die, my wife will sell my guitars for what I told her they cost.

  • #4276

    superblonde
    Keymaster


    Energetic Band Searching For A Bassist
    !

    (see attached pic. what the eff?? Hah )

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    Attachments:
    1. Picture-9.png

    • #4343

      safetyblitz
      Participant

      First saw this make the rounds years ago, but I still get a kick out of it:

      (original was supposedly posted to Craigslist in Jackson Mississippi, but I copied from https://www.gearslutz.com/board/moan-zone/701183-friend-sent-me-bass-players-post-craigslist.html)

      “POST:Bass player available for PAYING GIGS ONLY. I play G, C, D. If your songs are not in G, please transpose them into G. If your song has an Em or Bm or anything off the wall I will probably sit out that chord. Or I could learn those notes for $30 each. If you want me to do fancy stuff like go back and forth between G and D while you hold a G chord, forget it because I’m a “pocket” player. Minimum $100 per gig within a 5 mile radius of 39202. $5 per mile travel charge for other areas out of town. Please make sure your gigs are on a JATRAN bus route, or you can pick me up at my place. Must be home by 11pm due to previous legal hassles. No gigs within 500 yards of schools, parks, or playgrounds.”

  • #4303

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    I’m using material from these posts in my ongoing article: How to Form an Adult Band

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4313

    Hard40sta
    Participant

    My current band spans the generations! I am 47, the drummer is 27, bassist is 50, and the keyboardist is 30. I have been handling the vocals, but wanted to get out from underneath that so we advertised for a singer. After visiting our ReverbNation page, I actually had a singer tell me we looked “too old to be any good” and that we should probably call it a day. A few days later he emailed me again because he had finally listened to a couple of our tracks and thought were were “awesome.” He told me his favorite band was Mastadon. He requested an audition. I denied his request, but I encouraged him to contact Mastadon and give them that same advice since their average age is 49! =]

    I’m still the singer.

  • #4341

    James Davis
    Participant

    Ha, it is funny to me that I am “THAT GUY” you are writing about.  I was 16 as you described, had all kinds of ambition to be a rock star, got derailed by life, have a career in insurance, started playing again last year and know bits of songs, lol!!  Doug you are a sage!  I literally have a blast sitting around, smoking some bbq (which I might add, I am very good at!), learning what I want to of a song, blaring it through my amp and going on to the next “bit” of a song.  I will finally, try to go out and find some people to play live with as you suggest.  Thanks for the inspiration yet again!  Sir you had the pulse of this in the 80s and still have in now.  I am glad you have been there in my lifetime.  Although playing with Iron Maiden will never be in the cards for me, playing with the Iron Wheel Chairs just might be.  I don’t often say this, and I do not know you personally, but from what I do know, you are the man.  Thanks for all these years of fun.

    • #4376

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      Thanks James. I appreciate the kind words. Just don’t lose site of the fact that I get paid to do this… paid to have fun! Also, a large percentage of Metal Method’s current students are here because we had a huge presence in the ’80’s. We sold thousands of guitar lessons and many of those students just followed a natural life trajectory. At this point in time… they’re back! And I hear their stories every day.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4378

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 3 – Find other musicians on your level
    Many guitarists don’t think that they’re good enough to play in a band. Actually, the opposite is true. There are way more beginner and intermediate musicians to select from than awesome players. Create an online advertisement to reach local musicians. Begin by sharing your musical taste, level of experience, and time available to practice.

    You understand the need for quality equipment for a professional guitar sound. It’s not out of the question for an adult to spend three to five thousand dollar on the guitar and amp of their dreams.  Or as you might tell your spouse…”Less than a thousand dollars for everything.” It’s as important to find compatible band members as it is to have top notch equipment.  Maybe even more important.  Why not spend money on targeted advertising on Facebook or Google? Chances are, that’s where your future band members can be found.  It’s quite likely that they’ve included guitar in their Facebook profile.  Record a video and upload it directly to Facebook. It will spread to more news feeds than if you include a YouTube link.  Promote the video.  You do this in Facebook’s Ad Manager. You can target geographic area, age, hobbies (guitar), and possibly musical taste.  Begin by purchasing $20 of advertising targeted to your local area.  If you get some interest but not enough prepare to spend a couple hundred dollars on advertising.  Just do it $20 at a time and revise the ad until you find something that works.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #4835

      superblonde
      Keymaster

      Regarding finding others to play with, what are some simple ideas to separate the wheat from the chaff.  What would be the deal breakers for knowing sooner rather than later, that it won’t work out.  (Your own story seems more like: join up then steer the direction for the mates, replace players as needed. compared to, find the mates who are on the same page first.)   I would guess different places have their own interpersonal characteristics.  In socal, one downfall has got to be the flakiness factor, so maybe one consideration would be, if there’s a bunch of rescheduling to even show up for a first meeting, it’s maybe not the right person.  I can think of important questions to ask if interviewing a person professionally for a business but not many pointed questions for a band mate.  Besides trying to feel out the obvious “is there a cool vibe here” type thing.  I guess a convo about priorities and goals or expected contributions?  Maybe that might put off some good people.  As you’ve said, maybe a lot more emphasis needs to be placed on the “find the right mates”.  Considering that players will even pick up & move to a different state in order to join, if they feel the vibe is right..  One point that seems to be mentioned in the ads I’ve seen is for required sharing of rehearsal space costs, so, financial disagreements being what they are, maybe that’s best brought up sooner?  Another difference for socal – where no one has big backyards or spare rehearsal basements.  (Hmm wait a minute, maybe the grateful dad’s empty nester syndrome with it’s empty kid bedroom can finally be put to good use?)

      It’s so amazing that all these great bands started out with two people who just happened to be random neighbors or happenstance friends.  Megadeth for example.  (Not to presume an ambition to be the next Megadeth or whatever, this is just a good, well known example.  When and where would Mustaine have ended up without the other Dave?)   Or The White Stripes, basically a random accident.   Almost as if the interpersonal chemistry amongst band mates is more important than the ability to write & play music itself.   Like Nirvana and Krist Novoselic.  There’s so many bands like this to name.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #4836

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      I have oversimplified the process.  Yep, it’s easier when you’re in high school and you naturally hang with people of similar interests.  For adults, it often happens by finding someone at work that plays guitar,  for others it might be the church.  Ideally, pay for a rehearsal space for a couple of months and just jam with anyone that might have potential.  Obviously the most compatible players will be your choice in the end.  You may even find that this jam strategy will last a very long time until you find the right combination of players.  You and another guitarist might end up spending a lot of time passing a bass guitar back and forth and jamming with drum tracks.  That’s okay.  Gradually you’ll begin to feel very comfortable in the situation.  You’ll feel right at home when that perfect drummer happens to stop by for the jam.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #4927

      superblonde
      Keymaster

      I’m gonna try calling local guitar stores who also have instruction, to maybe find similar guitar students.  Sounds like I might have to encourage other students to give it a try tho, if they aren’t already looking to play.   I notice open mic nights haven’t been mentioned yet, maybe for good reason ;-D  Hearing scream-o in a hipster coffee shop over a hot chai tea might not be the right combination.    I found a local web site that supposedly lists the open mic nights in the county (both cafe and bars).  So that might be a place to start looking for some peeps?  Here is a site that lists many different cities, I dunno how reliable the listings are, http://www.openmic.us/

       

       

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #4396

    gman
    Participant

    I did not know Facebook advertising was that affordable.  Thanks for sharing that info.

  • #4400

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    To promote Metal Method I often spend $20 for a tiny ad campaign.  Obviously it’s not going to make me any money but it’s a good way to do tests and stuff.  From my experience you can get incredible results locally by spending very little money but that only happens if the ad is well thought out and attention getting.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4416

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 4 – At least one rehearsal a week
    It would be great to practice five days a week but as an adult it’s difficult to get everyone together at the same time. You must have at least one rehearsal a week. There will be homework to insure that progress continues. Each member must practice the group’s material five days a week at home, on their own schedule using prerecorded backing tracks. More on the backing tracks later.

    To keep an adult band together you must be able to accommodate the busy schedule of four or five working adults. That’s difficult because things come up that disrupts even the best of intentions. So you must be able to use prerecorded tracks to substitute for your friends that are too busy to rehearse this week. If everyone works diligently on the song list, on their own time, you can still make progress.

    The Article: How to Form an Adult Band

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #4440

      superblonde
      Keymaster

      I wonder how technology might help in some cases with busy schedules. Like for special cases, joining in remotely in via skype or facetime call? Seems like it might be possible with the right setup with a good camera (or iPhone/iPad) and good audio ins/outs?

      Anyone ever tried playing music over a google hangout or does the delay or quality make it impossible?

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #4443

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      That’s a great suggestion. I’ll definitely add that to the article. Why not set up a Skype or Google meeting for members that might not be physically able to make it but still have the check in Via Skype. I haven’t used Google hangout but understand that the session is recorded and available on YouTube.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4469

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 5 – Learn one new song per week
    Add a new song to your song list each week. Keep it simple. You don’t need to learn overly complicated songs at first. Begin by playing songs with simple song structures. After you’ve got a dozen songs learned you can either embellish some of your previous selections or  learn something more complex. Initially, don’t learn leads note-for-note. Learn how to  do a very basic improvisation.  It’s not difficult to play a basic lead to any song. It’s not necessary to impress…. that will come later.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4738

    metalj
    Participant

    This topic gave me the idea to put my band on a website. I was going to make a website anyway so I figure a blog about the band would be good. It would pretty much be like MySpace or Facebook. Now I need to come up with a band name.

    Jay aka the letter J

  • #4747

    grondak
    Participant

    Learning one new song a week is right up there with the individual practice goals you set, Doug. I’ve been doing that, too.  It’s a good thing to work on between Speed and Accuracy runs, for example.  Should you practice on your own before you show up to a full band practice, or just learn it together?

    Metal Method is helping me across the board!

    • #4776

      superblonde
      Keymaster

      One new song per week, yikes, it’s taken me two solid months to learn just three songs not even perfectly yet, and that’s not even touching the solo’s.

       

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

    • #4778

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      1) Don’t learn songs perfectly

      2) Don’t learn the leads

      3) Choose simple songs with simple arrangements

      4) After you accumulate a dozen songs, go back and fine tune your original arrangements. Throw in a few leads and licks. Play the song closer to the original artists’ version.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4767

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    It’s always a good idea to stay several steps ahead of the rest of the group.  If you want the majority of tunes to be of your choosing (and who doesn’t want this), bring the completed arrangement to rehearsal.  If you show up with a song and nobody else does.  Guess what song that you’re learning this week?

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4770

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 6 – Choose material as a group
    The material that a band chooses for their song list should reflect the musical taste of the entire group. Keep this in mind when choosing material to present to the group. Of course not everyone is going to love every song on the list. Each member will have favorites. Still, if anybody objects to playing a song don’t include it in your song list. Since the band members should have similar tastes you can find music that everybody enjoys playing. If not, you may be in the wrong group or there may be other members that don’t fit. This goes back to Tip 3. Don’t just throw together a group. Take the time to find members with similar experience, taste, and goals. The original article continues to evolve: 12 Tips to Form an Adult Band

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4783

    gman
    Participant

    Doug,

    I am intrigued by the advice to not learn the songs exactly and not to learn the leads right away.

    Please expand on that in the future if you have time.  Sounds like a great lesson in music practicality / real world experience.

  • #4784

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    It’s easy to get so caught up in the details of copying a song that you can’t even remember what key the song is in.  That’s why it’s fun to grab a bass and play along with recordings.  It helps you to understand the basic structure of the song: identify the verse, chorus, and bridge.  Sure, there might be a pre-chorus, intro and other sections but they’re probably closely related to the verse, chorus, or bridge.  If you can play the basic parts of a song you can jam with friends and perform.  Try to reduce a song to it’s simplest parts.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4787

    metalj
    Participant

    Rocksmith 2014 is a great way to learn to bs your way through a cover song. Just play the easiest parts and instead of chords you’ll be shown roots. Also you can emulate bass with your six string and play along to the bass parts. Get rocksmith 2014 and ultimate guitar app and it will happen fast. Break the song down to key (drone) then roots then use the rules of harmony to embellish the roots.

    Jay aka the letter J

  • #4806

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 7 – Develop a system for practicing at a low volume level
    You should be able to practice at such a low volume that the vocalist doesn’t need a microphone. There are many ways to do this. It usually involves a small mixing board, a headphone amp and all instruments direct into the mixing board with a Pod or other direct-in device for guitar. The singer doesn’t need a microphone. The drummer can keep beat on pads, an electronic kit (plugged into the mixing board) or just use hands on their thighs. It’s so much easier to work out parts at a low volume level than to have amps cranked. Once you know the part, crank it up. Another advantage to this is, you can actually warm up with the band backstage before a gig.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #4838

      sarpedion
      Participant

      I’m 48,and was a drummer semi professionally back in the 80s.I took up the guitar about 2001,and was surprised by how easy your lessons made it for me.I have trouble finding others to jam with because I work weekends every week.Everyone wants to get together on a Saturday afternoon.So,I’ve decided to dedicate my practice time to learning all of the Ozzy songs from the Randy Rhoads Tribute album.I can do a decent job with about half of them,I’ll keep at it though.I try to dedicate my practice time to learning songs with something new or just beyond my abilities,so I can always be learning something new.

      I did play with a drummer over the summer last year,but he was a smoker and that drove me nuts.As a health nut,that

      s something I had a hard time with.

      Doug,would you consider a basic fingerstyle course to add to your current offerings?That’s about the only thing you are missing that I would like to see.

       

       

       

       

       

    • #4875

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      I agree. Something on finger picking / acoustic guitar would be excellent. I’ll give this some thought.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4873

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 8 – A multi-track recording of your music is the key
    When you learn a new tune record your part along with the entire band using a multi-track recorder. Record each instrument of the band on a separate track. Give each musician a “minus one” mp3 file or CD to play along with. What I mean by this is, a guitarist should have a recording of the drums, bass, and vocals minus guitar. That way the guitar player can practice all songs daily on a convenient schedule. The band doesn’t need to practice together to experience “band practice.” Just play along with the band recording.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4879

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    Google the phrase “How to form an adult band”. On my computer we’re number one with a bullet. Also, I’ve added a picture of my friend and neighbor, bass player Larry Lee.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #4898

      superblonde
      Keymaster

      Ditto that.  Here’s two screenshots, first with quotes (you’re in every top 10 hit in fact), the second without quotes.

      Either that means no one broaches this subject.. or no one else calls this topic ‘adult band’ 😀

       

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

      Attachments:
      1. Picture-10.png

      2. Picture-11.png

  • #4880

    gman
    Participant

    I googled it, and it came up #1.

    Congrats!

  • #4882

    gman
    Participant

    On the finger picking comment, I have dabbled in it and noticed several things:

    1 – It really helps to move the left hand control into the subconscious

    2 – It is very impressive to people who do not play

    3 – It can really produce some beautiful music

    I learned the intro to Dust in the Wind, bits of Dumb Ways to Die and Hey Delilah.  Yes, I am very guilty of learning bits and pieces of songs.

  • #4883

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    Thanks gman. Garnett, you’re looking pretty stylish in those shades.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #4884

    gman
    Participant

    Thanks Doug!

  • #5025

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 9 – Record Rehearsals
    There are many ways to do this. I have a Zoom recorder that is ideal. You can even get an adapter to turn your iPhone into a Zoom. When band members are able to hear recordings of the band it lessens the need for criticism. Most of us can hear problems when listening to a recording. If a player is too loud, for example, that will be obvious to the player. When standing in front of an amplifier it’s difficult to judge sound levels and can turn into a volume battle.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

    • #5030

      superblonde
      Keymaster

      At several of the small club performances I’ve gone to recently, I saw the band set up one or even two gopro’s to video themselves live.  Maybe for use in a home movie, or maybe to review & critique later.   I think recording video is a good idea for practicing too.  Probably best to use a separate audio recorder.  Altho the gopro can support an external mic I am not sure it is stereo on all models or good quality audio.  The benefit of the action cam like gopro instead of just using someone’s iPhone is that the wide angle lens can get everyone in.  I believe only the Sony action cam has stereo mic’s.

       

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #5026

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 10 – Pay a local guitar instructor to fine tune your sound
    Instead of taking a guitar lesson take a band lesson.  Your local guitar instructor will be more than happy to help manage your practice sessions and probably for a very reasonable fee.  Their experience can move you to your goals much faster than doing it alone.  Plus, it’s always good to have an objective, unbiased third party opinion in the house.  You can tell the bass player that she’s too loud and it might not make any difference to her.  If she hears it from a respected instructor, chances are, she’ll take it seriously.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #5029

    TommyZ
    Participant

    It’s true about gaining an unbiased opinion.Tip #10 for me goes back to finding the right people.When your in a band a zillion things are going to have to get discussed at one time or another.Finding members that have the mentality of whatever is best for the band or have had experience in a band or group setting are ideal.For me I’ve always had that mantra whether it’s sound levels,band matters or even trying something new.I agree hearing a recording will point out things you never knew existed another reason to be on your game or to improve. Great stuff here.

    "The level of achievement that we have at anything is a reflection of how well we're able to focus on it " Steve Vai

  • #5047

    safetyblitz
    Participant

    At several of the small club performances I’ve gone to recently, I saw the band set up one or even two gopro’s to video themselves live. Maybe for use in a home movie, or maybe to review & critique later. I think recording video is a good idea for practicing too. Probably best to use a separate audio recorder. Altho the gopro can support an external mic I am not sure it is stereo on all models or good quality audio. The benefit of the action cam like gopro instead of just using someone’s iPhone is that the wide angle lens can get everyone in. I believe only the Sony action cam has stereo mic’s.

    I can understand wanting an active microphone to prevent audio clipping in a loud show, but what is the point of recording in stereo unless you’re trying to replicate the binaural experience of a specific listening position? If recording off a mixing board isn’t an option, isn’t a mono mic on a camera (or an independently positioned mono mic) really all you need?

    • #5052

      superblonde
      Keymaster

      Yup, binaural audio makes such a huge difference.  Mic placement (& directionality) is super important.  That’s what my bootlegging experience tells me.  There’s an old AV rule that says: never record audio with the camera’s built-in mic.  There’s good reasons for the rule.  Those built-in mic’s sound horrible in almost every consumer camera ever made (stereo or not).   Even if the mic’s and A/D’s are great, the position inside the camera is universally not – too much noise coupled from the camera itself, digital noise, etc.  Also prosumer cameras rarely have audio level controls (maybe always on AGC) because the manufacturers like to use that feature to separate the prosumer’s from the professionals (and charge $500 more for that ability).  So even on a camera with an external audio-in jack (rare), the noise floor might be lame, and the AGC would kill dynamics.  The Sony action camera has been praised for it’s audio though, it’s the only one with stereo mic’s so perhaps they’re trying to one-up all the other action cams by including really good onboard audio and audio recording features, perhaps even on the external audio input jack.  I dunno if there’s a pad on the internal mic’s so maybe they’ll get saturated, regardless external mic’s could be more predictable.  I have an old Sony video tape camera which has stunning stereo audio from internal mic’s and amazing dynamic range, so it is possible, just unlikely in general, the performance was only in that particular camera model.

      The gopro’s are known for the bad internal mic, so the audio front end is probably not great even with an external mic, since the camera is just not made for good audio reproduction at all.   I guess I’m saying, in general, use a separate audio recorder and a separate video recorder unless the camera’s audio has proven in that environment to be of good quality.  The result on the video cam will be good enough for sync’ing to the audio track from a separate device and then just delete it’s audio.

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #5185

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    One story that MAB shared in the recent interview and he seemed really emphatic about, he mentioned some great guitarist he knows who refuses to play anyone else’s songs other than his own, so, he gets zero exposure and no one gets to see how talented he is.  The conclusion was, “ya gotta play other people’s songs”.  Some of the ads I am scanning have a definite vibe to them one way or the other (or simply say, “we play original music” ).   As some of the other discussions here have pointed out, it seems a tough road for original music these days as a starting point compared to playing covers or tributes.

     

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #5241

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 11 – Rent or create a space to rehearse
    This is a no brainer but still a necessity. You’ve got to have a place to practice. I explain this in-depth in my How To Start A Band article. You may initially need to rent a space yourself. Eventually the expense can be shared by the entire band. There are places that allow you to book by the hour. This is cost effective but can be difficult due to moving equipment in and out and setup time.

    How to Form an Adult Band Tip 12 – Set a date three months from today to play somewhere
    That’s right. You may be the only one to be in your band at this moment so take charge. Set a goal to play in front of an audience three months from today.  Monthly review this goal and note how you’re doing in your quest for stardom.

    I watched Motley Crue grow from playing at the Whiskey in Hollywood to the huge concert venues that they eventually conquered.  Exactly one year from the day of their first gig they played the Santa Monica Civic Center. Think that was a coinicidence?

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #5339

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    I have an acquaintance who it turns out works at a record store (yea, “a what? they still have those?”). I mentioned looking for peeps to play with, she said definitely put up a posting at the record store. First, know that record stores still exist.. (I think there is one around here just in the next town.) Second, know that “all record stores and even some pawn shops have places to post that you’re looking to play” — according to her.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #5432

    gman
    Participant

    Made a step towards tip #12 today (set a performance date).

    I called a local coffee shop that I have seen a guitarist playing at and asked what I needed to do to play.  I was told to send a message to the owner via Facebook, which I did tonight.  Waiting for a response.

  • #5471

    bdickens
    Participant

    Oops, wrong post

    Byron Dickens

  • #5473

    bdickens
    Participant

    It’s always a good idea to stay several steps ahead of the rest of the group. If you want the majority of tunes to be of your choosing (and who doesn’t want this), bring the completed arrangement to rehearsal. If you show up with a song and nobody else does. Guess what song that you’re learning this week?

    Even better, write all the music yourself. 😉

    I actually did that in the last project I was involved in. Not by design, but because I hit an extremely fertile and prolific creative period at the same time. I couldn’t sit down to practice without coming up with something new. Some of it was actually pretty good. Of an hour-long set, all but three tunes were mine.

    Byron Dickens

  • #5474

    bdickens
    Participant

    Doug,

    I am intrigued by the advice to not learn the songs exactly and not to learn the leads right away.

    Please expand on that in the future if you have time. Sounds like a great lesson in music practicality / real world experience.

    Learn all the basic parts and don’t try to copy every little fill, variation and nuance.

    Byron Dickens

  • #5890

    2handband
    Participant

    Someone upthread said that there aren’t standards in popular music. I disagree. There’s a broad core group of songs that I’ve lost count of the times I’ve played. To tell you the truth the bar scene has become incredibly boring; literally every band in the world with a singer who has the range does Don’t Stop Believin’. Seriously… I spent most of the last year mixing sound instead of playing. With almost every single cover band, I look at their setlist and say holy shit; give me 48 hours and I could play this show because I’ve performed fully 2/3 or more of those songs in the past. There’s a local funk group with a full-on horn section… they play Don’t Stop Believin. Twin cities disco band… Don’t Stop Believin’. Any country band with a chick singer… Don’t Stop Believin. There are actually quite a few songs that any bar band who knows on which side their bread is buttered will play regardless of their core focus.

    If you wanna play the bar scene, right now start learning:

    Jessie’s Girl

    All the Small Things

    Holiday

    Hit me With Your Best Shot

    Don’t Stop Believin’

    Summer of 69

    I Love Rock n Roll

    Anyway You Want It

    Pour Some Sugar on Me

    Bad Romance

    Those are just samples, but surely you get the idea.

  • #5893

    2handband
    Participant

    I will throw out two ways to make $$$ playing covers without having to play the same shit everyone else is. Idea #1: try a tribute band. With a tribute band you certainly have to play the hits whatever band you’re covering recorded, but you also can dig into their catalog and play some deep cuts. In fact, it’s kind of expected. I played guitar with a  Journey tribute for a short time a couple years ago (the band split up just a couple months after I got involved) and aside from Don’t Stop Believin and Anyway You Want It (AKA if I ever have to play these songs again I will slit my own throat) we also got to play songs like Escape and Line of Fire. A few caveats:

    1) If you’re going to have a tribute band, people really do expect you to be able to duplicate that band’s recorded sound. You have to be that good.

    2) It’s surprisingly difficult to find musicians willing to be in a tribute act.

    3) You probably can’t pick your favorite band. It has to be a group that has had enough hits that a large majority of people will recognize to fill up at least 2/3 of your show (hint: play a 90 minute show and use some local cover band as an opener rather than trying to fill up a 4-hour bar show). You can only do deep cuts to a point. It has to be Def Leppard or Zeppelin or the Beatles or something like that. When I was doing the Journey tribute the bass player’s gf hit us up to do a Joan Jett/Pat Benatar tribute with her singing to fill up the weekends our usual singer couldn’t work. But those two women between them have what, maybe four or five songs that middle America actually remembers? The idea was a loser. If you wanna do metal, probably your only realistic choice is Ozzy.

    4) It’ll cost you some $$$. Get appropriate costumes and instruments.

    Idea #2 is a theme band. I did an ’80s band for several years with tremendous success. We really had a seldom-tapped niche because while there are several very good 80s bands in the region, they all focus almost exclusively on hair metal. We did some of that but erred more towards 80s pop like Duran Duran and the Police. People still remember that stuff and it was VERY successful. Of course we still had to do the bullshit: Jessie’s Girl, Don’ Stop Believin, et al. But we also got to do Hungry like the Wolf. Once again you have to choose a theme that mainstream America (read: women aged 25-40) is going to be into. If your theme is late 80s death metal you are probably screwed. Once again, period-appropriate costuming and stage behavior is crucial.

    • #5946

      Doug Marks
      Keymaster

      That’s some great advice. I like hearing from those that are “still in the trenches.”  Good stuff.

      Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #5932

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    I put up a couple craigslist posts looking for a drummer to “start a white stripes tribute band or jam their songs for practice”. Well, cause their songs are easy enough (slow enough) for me to play currently and somewhat pop. I don’t know if that would insult drummers though because the original drums are terrible ;-D no hits on the posts. Also with answering other ads it feels pretty odd since a lot of the amateur band ads say things like: “We have all been playing for 5 to 7 years and have played at a couple house parties. Be 15 – 17 years old.” Whaaa? Already played for 5-7 years and only 15-17 years old? Yea I know it’s cliche but still. Awkward audition perhaps? Ha 😛 Like one of those B-movies where an old guy goes back to high school? 😀 So havent had luck with craigslist music section in general yet. Which is okay for now since I’m still on the way to being able to play 8 songs fully.

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #5936

    2handband
    Participant

    I put up a couple craigslist posts looking for a drummer to “start a white stripes tribute band or jam their songs for practice”. Well, cause their songs are easy enough (slow enough) for me to play currently and somewhat pop. I don’t know if that would insult drummers though because the original drums are terrible ;-D no hits on the posts. Also with answering other ads it feels pretty odd since a lot of the amateur band ads say things like: “We have all been playing for 5 to 7 years and have played at a couple house parties. Be 15 – 17 years old.” Whaaa? Already played for 5-7 years and only 15-17 years old? Yea I know it’s cliche but still. Awkward audition perhaps? Ha :-P Like one of those B-movies where an old guy goes back to high school? :-D So havent had luck with craigslist music section in general yet. Which is okay for now since I’m still on the way to being able to play 8 songs fully.

    I’m not surprised that you haven’t had any hits on your ad. Younger musicians probably haven’t the least idea who the Whites Stripes were, and the older ones know that the White Stripes aren’t nearly well known enough for a tribute band to be a success. You’d do better just saying that you’re looking for a drummer to jam with, having an eye towards maybe starting a band.

    Drummers are hard to find. Bass players are worse. Singers can be damn near impossible. Tell me, are you located in a rural/small city environment or are you in or near a large metro? You almost have to be near a good sized city to make finding musicians easy. But then you often run into another problem: if you’re advertising a start-up you’re in direct competition with established bands that are making money already and looking for replacement players. Often a less experienced musician’s best option is to find a band to JOIN instead of a band to start. Once you’ve made some friends and forged some contacts and connections you can start your own project. To be honest I often prefer to just join a band; that way I can frequently go in just as a guitar player for hire and can skip out on a lot of shit like promotion and booking.

    The ads for younger players means: “we are young and modern and determined to go forward with our contemporary sounding original music and become rock stars. We do not want some old fuddy-duddy telling us that our half-baked badly written songs are in no way marketable or that we’d make more $$$ playing covers”. If they’re allergic to experience, just give them a pass.

    • #5962

      superblonde
      Keymaster

      I’m in a small city. Big city is 40 mi away and the party-college-hippy suburb is 10 mi on the other side of that.  Not a far distance but traffic can be hell.

      Good ideas in general.  That plus Doug’s comments boils down to: learn bass.  I see regular ads looking for bassists.

      Typical craigslist ad from today is below.  Slight exaggeration of experience I suppose (18 years experience of.. errrr.. what kind, ha).

      Starting a band in xx!! Need drummer and bass player who are into rock/soul/jazz. I’m 25 and have been playing guitar for 18 years, influences include Traffic, Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield, The Beatles, Floyd, Zeppelin, ect. Looking for people around my age who are serious about their music and want to do more originals than covers, let’s get this ball rolling!!

      I didn’t figure craigslist is really where it’s at, it’s just so easy to throw an ad up.  Most real connections still happen in-person and thru networking.  I was kind of figuring though that it’d be neat to find a beginner level student first (not a band mate per se), maybe a college kid from one of the small local colleges.  But likely they are into their own music curriculum, or jazz or something.  Or so desperate for jobs & money that they have no time to play music.  I dunno how kids can make it in the recessionary world today.  If I had a room to rent out, like I used to do, I’d look around for a music student housemate, though that does have a few drawbacks.  Much less commute time if it’s simply walking to the living room though. 😀

       

      I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
      And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

  • #5939

    TommyZ
    Participant

    I love Dougs Point here. Already have a place to play I see this often Bands don’t have a Place to rehearse and to me it’s an enticing factor.Theres alot of young bands out here A bit out of touch with reality and mantra.Get one person at a time and use the pointers here aquiring is the really hard part Stick to your guns!!Have Faith and Good Luck!!

    "The level of achievement that we have at anything is a reflection of how well we're able to focus on it " Steve Vai

  • #5949

    Doug Marks
    Keymaster

    It’s surprising what you can make happen if you have access to a rehearsal studio.  Instead of forming a band right now, use the rehearsal space to become accustomed to playing with other musicians.  For example, rent a space for $20 every Wednesday evening at 7:00.  Make it clear that it’s not an audition, it’s a jam session.  If no one shows up it’s you, your amplifier and a backing track to play along with.  Drummers are especially attracted to rehearsal spaces.  This environment can give you the opportunity to play with many different musicians.  With a little luck the musicians will spread the word.  Make it a Wednesday evening party.  Before you know it others will become regulars and contribute to renting the space.  Keep it low key and non threatening.

    When I’m rehearsing a band it’s very structured.  Part of that structure is no guests and no alcohol.  Your Wednesday night party doesn’t need to include these rules.  It’s a good idea to have a song list so others that show up will be familiar with some of the tunes that you’ll be jamming on.

    Metal Method Guitar Instructor

  • #5954

    2handband
    Participant

    It’s surprising what you can make happen if you have access to a rehearsal studio. Instead of forming a band right now, use the rehearsal space to become accustomed to playing with other musicians. For example, rent a space for $20 every Wednesday evening at 7:00. Make it clear that it’s not an audition, it’s a jam session. If no one shows up it’s you, your amplifier and a backing track to play along with. Drummers are especially attracted to rehearsal spaces. This environment can give you the opportunity to play with many different musicians. With a little luck the musicians will spread the word. Make it a Wednesday evening party. Before you know it others will become regulars and contribute to renting the space. Keep it low key and non threatening. When I’m rehearsing a band it’s very structured. Part of that structure is no guests and no alcohol. Your Wednesday night party doesn’t need to include these rules. It’s a good idea to have a song list so others that show up will be familiar with some of the tunes that you’ll be jamming on.

    Bear in mind this isn’t an option for everybody. Rehearsal studios like this (which are great; I’ve used them myself) are really only available in medium-to-large cities.

    Any good rehearsal is structured. It’s important because rehearsals don’t pay very well; something like $0 per hour last time I checked. I’ve been in more than one band that has fired people for showing up without having the material mastered.

  • #5970

    superblonde
    Keymaster

    A great post that’s a blast from the past :
    Tips for finding work as a musician
    Unread postby 2handband on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:03 am
    http://bb-metalmethod.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=94710

     

    I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! The glutens will be eaten with relish!
    And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.

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